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 Location: st paul
Registered: 08-11-2007
Posts: 1129
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Posted
The problem with collins is more of a problem with Bob Sanders, IMO. Collins looked like a future pro bowler under Bates. I think Hawk would benefit from a better DC too. As would Bigby and Rouse. RODGERS: A MM has coached him up and you can see confidence in Rodgers that wasn't there in the past. COLLINS: I give him a B. He's not the only safety that gets lost out there. Can Kurt Schottenheimer AND Bob Sanders. All three of those guys will start looking much better. TERRENCE MURPHY: A as a pick. You can't forsee a freak injury like that. This kid looked better than Gregg Jennings his first year. MARVIEL UNDERWOOD: B as a pick. Dude was coming along nicely, but lost out due to an injury. He was also up against some pretty good players back there. If Underwood's knee holds up, he'll play somewhere. POPPINGA B He's started for two years now, although he hasn't set the world on fire. He may not be being used properly. Great special teamer. JUNIUS COSTON: C This kid was very very young, so he has time to develop, even though he takes up a roster spot as he does. They say he has "explosive muscle twitch." Heh. Dude needs to start producing. MIKE HAWKINS: D I could see giving this kid a chance. MIKE MONTGOMERY: C This dude is tough and plugs up the middle when he's in there. Good special teamer. Not a starter or world beater, but provides good depth. Craig Bragg D, I liked giving this kid a shot too. Didn't do much, though. KURT CAMPBELL: F Dude had nothing. WILL WHITTICKER: F Dude had nothing. Although in fairness, this pick was worth it as part of the conspiracy to get rid of Sherman. The acquisition of R-KAL TRULUK was almost as infamous as the trade up to nab BJ SANDER. |
 Location: The shed behind Boris Castle.
Registered: 03-20-2005
Posts: 6661
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Posted
I remember hoping Craig Bragg was going to work out. He holds a couple WR records at UCLA which I guess is impressive. Some guys just can't hack it I guess.
Never understood the Mike Hawkins pick. I knew the Arena League made him look better than he was. |
 Location: Do you feel that Italian families allow for individuality?
Registered: 01-06-2006
Posts: 2534
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Posted
My thoughts:
1) Rodgers: B- This is mostly graded on what little glimpses we've seen of him so far. I think he'll end up being a solid star. Not a Brady, Manning, nor certainly Favre, but he'll still make a good leader and go to the Pro Bowl a couple of times. Not going to SF could be the best thing to have ever happened to him. 2a) Collins: C+ I think Schotty is what holds him back. He's no Turd, but he hasn't been worth much of a 2nd round pick. If TT had to pick him over again, he could afford to wait until Rds 3 or maybe 4 2b) Murphy: D- Breaks my heart to give him this grade, because it wasn't his fault he got hurt. Mark my words, if he hadn't had that freak injury, the Moss rumors never would have started. Hopefully he'll stay on as a coach 4a) Underwood: C- I really didn't expect him to be more than a backup/STer anyway, but he did show some promise. Good prospect who ended up like Murphy. 4b) Poppinga: B+ Not a star, but a lunchpail guy who continues to get better. If he wants to realize his true potential though, he may have to play for a team that runs a 3-4. 5a) Coston: C Nothing special, but he was able to get it together last year and hold a starting job for a while. 5b) Hawkins: F Bust. Not worth a 7th rounder. 6a) Montgomery: B Underrated backup who's made some key plays. I'm curious as to what he could do if a starter went down. 6b) Bragg: F I really hoped he would have been our key PR man, but it never happened. 7a) Campbell: D- Give him a little break. He did have injuries hold him back. (Although he probably wouldn't have made the roster anyway) 7b) Whitticker: C- Yes, the OL blew chunks in 05, and this guy played his role, but he gets a high grade because we got so much mileage out of a 7th rounder. I hope he's enjoying his career at Circuit City. I'd give it a B- or C+ right now, with Rodgers being the X factor. |
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Location: NH
Registered: 03-15-2000
Posts: 3661
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Posted
The grading scale is bizarre. An F in the first three rounds is much worse than an F in the 6/7 rounds. In the late rounds, its rare to pick up a significant contributor. A solid back-up would be an A and a good starter is just plain lucky!
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 Registered: 01-11-2002
Posts: 10874
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Posted
If that's what you meant, fine, but that's not what you said. You said it's clear he IS a very capable, solid starting QB, not that he's capable OF being that (which I would agree with). I'm optimistic too, but right now his future is totally unclear. |
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Location: Madison, WI USA
Registered: 08-18-2000
Posts: 8041
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Posted
Some of the grades have been pretty harsh so far IMO. Whittacker may have been out of the league after starting one season, but I'd bet about 1/2 of seventh round picks don't even see action as backups in half an NFL season.
Round One = Aaron Rodgers = Incomplete First rounders have to prove that they can or cannot do it on the field in a large enough sampling of regular season action before you can give them a grade. Rodgers has proven nothing either way (good or bad) so far. Round Two = Nick Collins = B+ Three year starter who isn't great but is a bit better than the average grade most Packer fans give him. Round Two = Terrence Murphy = F Chalk this one up to some bad luck. Showed great potential before being injured but the bottom line is that he was a second round pick that only appeared in 3 games as a backup before his career ended. Round Four = Marviel Underwood = D+ Played in all 16 games as a rookie and did well on special teams but never looked very good on defense. Round Four = Brady Poppinga = B May be a bit below average for a starter, but he still has been a legitimate two year starter which makes him a pretty good find for the end of the fourth round. Round Five = Junius Coston = C- In most drafts, once you get into the fifth round all you are looking for are backups and hope you get lucky that you find something better. Coston has stuck around and has played some, but I'd downgrade him slightly because of the injury factor. Round Five = Michael Hawkins = D- Stuck around for one full season which keeps this grade from being an F. Round Six = Michael Montgomery = C+ He's had some injury problems too, but I'll give him the + compared to the - I gave Coston because Montgomery was picked nearly 40 spots later. I think if you are a sixth round pick and you stick on the roster 3 years, then you were a pretty solid pick regardless. Round Six = Craig Bragg = F Didn't make the team. Round Six = Craig Campbell = F If I remember right he stuck for one year but was on IR that year. I don't believe he ever made the 53 man roster and I'm sure he never saw action in a regular season game for the Packers. Round Seven = Will Whitticker = B- There could be some great arguements each way over how to grade Whitticker. Packer fans may be a bit spoiled because Ron Wolf did find some real good ones down here like Donald Driver and Mark Tauscher. However, those guys are a huge exception to the rule. Most seventh rounders are lucky to stick on the roster for a season, much less be a starter. Sure Whitticker was less than average as a starter, and sure he only stuck in the league for one year, but I bet Whitticker's 16 career NFL starts is better than what over 50% of seventh round picks accomplish. |
 Location: Somewhere along I-94 picking up feces. Or so I'm told.
Registered: 07-13-2000
Posts: 8271
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Posted
Like yourself, I don't remember him doing to much but for him to get time in one of the deepest and best DL (as a whole) in the NFL is nothing to sneeze at. |
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Location: Northern MN
Registered: 04-27-2007
Posts: 412
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Posted
"No, I'm saying its clear he is capable of being a solid starting QB."
Based on what? He's been on an NFL roster for 3 years and seen the field in a game that meant anything once (twice if you count coming in during a blowout loss and completing 4 passes). Using that criteria, I guess it's clear that a lot of guys are "capable of being a solid starting QB." He might turn out to be a decent QB but the only thing that's clear is we won't find out for a while and you sure see things through some rosy colored glasses. |
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Location: Somewhere along I-94 picking up feces. Or so I'm told.
Registered: 07-13-2000
Posts: 8271
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Posted
For the BILLIONTH time, I said the Pack (the team, not the fans) BELIEVES they are a contender. I will call them a contender and you don't have to. |
 Location: Captain Underpants
Registered: 03-17-2004
Posts: 4272
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Posted
Give me a break. What was said was that the Packers are a Super Bowl contender. Putting them in that category right now is flat out stupid. |
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Registered: 01-11-2002
Posts: 10874
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Posted
Orlando, I don't know why you think it's so crazy to say the Packers are a Super Bowl "contender." This is the NFC, I could say that pretty easily about 8-10 teams, including a team starting as lousy a quarterback as Tarvaris Jackson. Geez, the Bears got to the Super Bowl with Grossman at QB. I fully agree that Rodgers is totally unproven, but in a conference where teams go from worst to first with regularity and where both championship game participants a year ago missed the playoffs a year later, yeah, I'd say the Packers coming off a 14-4 season are "contenders" -- even without Favre.
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 Location: The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Registered: 01-19-2005
Posts: 5508
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Posted
1
24 QB Aaron Rodgers, Cal Incomplete - We just don't have enough info to fairly grade the pick just yet. I loved the pick when it was made even knowing there would be no real payoff for a few years. 2 51 S/CB Nick Collins, Bethune-Cookman (From New Orleans for CB M.McKenzie) C- Marques Anderson/Brian Russell redux: looked like a coming player his rookie campaign then film got out and he gets exposed. He's a mediocre starter at best and looks to be replaced soon. 2 58 WR/KR Terrence Murphy, Texas A&M Incomplete - Would he have been a one-year tease, or a player? We just don't know. 4 115 S Marviel Underwood, San Diego State (From Carolina in Draft Day Trade) D - Sorry Marviel, I wanted to give you an incomplete, but this draft already has too many and you didn't show much while playing. 4 125 LB Brady Poppinga, BYU Bio | Audio & Video B- He's a solid, downhill player with definite coverage weaknesses but he's been an okay decent starter and being he's a 4th-rounder and converted, I felt he needed a little better than a "C". 5 143 C/G Junius Coston, North Carolina A&T From Oakland for S M.Anderson) C He is was he is, mediocre and not the most durable, but he has gotten playing time and as a second day pick it's hard to grade him lower. 5 167 CB Mike Hawkins, Oklahoma (From Philadelphia in Draft Day Trade) F - He sucked in college, had a bad attitude and was a waste of any pick. 6 180 DE Mike Montgomery, Texas A&M (From Oakland for S M.Anderson) C- With his health issues and where's he was drafted, he's found a way to keep making the roster (at least until put on IR) I feel a D would be too harsh. 6 195 WR Craig Bragg, UCLA (From New England in Draft Day Trade) F - Sorry Craig, you didn't make any part of the team. 7 245 LB Kurt Campbell, Albany (From Philadelphia in Draft Day Trade) F - See Bragg 7 246 G Will Whitticker, Michigan State (from New England in Draft Day Trade) C The line sucked, and Whit wasn't a great deal of help, but as a 7th round project tackle, he played about to the level normally expected. Overall grade: D This draft relatively blows until we see what Rodgers can do. Poppinga, Coston and Collins are none looking like long-term starters and more like stop-gaps. Add in the incompletes, and this draft just doesn't appear to produce much other than depth. Obviously if Rodgers pans out this draft grade rises one, potentially even two spots, but right now the two guys who were regular starters look to be being replaced. |
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Location: Somewhere along I-94 picking up feces. Or so I'm told.
Registered: 07-13-2000
Posts: 8271
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Posted
Go ahead and read through the Gus F thread again and you can see how it evolved. I really don't care who on this board believes what, however what I can be pretty sure of is the players, coaches and front office think they are a Super Bowl contender. And to call people stupid who think the team that lost the NFC championship game in overtime, even with a new QB...is stupid. |
 Location: Alexandria, VA
Registered: 02-06-2000
Posts: 19301
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Posted
So, did JJSD go back and edit his post as well as your quote of his post? I read the word 'capable' in both. Don't want to think there is inside cheating going on here at X4!!!!  |
 Location: San Diego
Registered: 12-19-2005
Posts: 7144
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Posted
 I didn't edit anything, and I wasn't even quoted - the quotes are between P'Boi and Max. Someone please explain this to Hauser. |
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Location: Alexandria, VA
Registered: 02-06-2000
Posts: 19301
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Posted
Sorry, wrong guy!!! You and p'boi look too much alike!! And I guess my reading abilities are a little off this morning as well. Wee what you've gone and done? You've given the cop from Iowa material!!! Anyway, I think Rodgers is 'capable' |
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Registered: 01-11-2002
Posts: 10874
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Posted
No editing. We both used the word capable. But he used it one way ("a very capable, solid starting QB"), then contended he used it differently ("capable of being a solid starting QB"). Which is quite different. |
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Location: Alexandria, VA
Registered: 02-06-2000
Posts: 19301
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Posted
I guess if you are in the business you are in (don't you write?) I could see it being taken that way. I wasn't much with grammar in school, so I read it the other way. But, I guess it's all in the way you read it. Don't think it's enough to chastise anyone either way. But, you can see from the past posts with JJSD that I'm not much at reading either!!
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Registered: 01-11-2002
Posts: 10874
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Posted
Would you rather be operated on by a very capable doctor or a med student capable of being a doctor? Me, I'd go with the guy considered very capable, not the guy who's capable of being that one day.
Whatever, he explained what he meant so it's no big deal. |
 Location: Normal, Illinois
Registered: 01-09-2001
Posts: 5648
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Posted
I can buy that ... I'd probably grade him as a C right now for making the roster, and holding his backup role. I don't think he's done much to excite though, but he gets limited opportunities as well. As for the earlier mentioned Nick Collins .. I think he's a C as well. He's been nothing but average, and can't be considered a "good" 2nd round pick. I'm amazed that a guy that can't locate, and play a ball in the air can get drafted so high. All in all I'd say his play has been a dissapoinment. Also .. Terrance Murphy .. nobody can ever be sure he would have been a good player. He had a nice rookie camp, but never got to show what he could do in real action. The grade has to be an "F" since he never did anything on the field as a pro .. that's a tough reality, but true. |
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Location: San Diego
Registered: 12-19-2005
Posts: 7144
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Posted
I raised this question with the medical ilk when this happened IIRC, but regarding Murphy, isn't it possible to test for a narrow spine during all of these medical tests that occur during the draft process? Tim Lewis and Sharpe were both really good players who had to retire for the same reason, and I wonder why it's never discovered until they're hurt. Why is that? If it's a congenital condition, shouldn't it be diagnosed somehow beforehand?
Murphy and Underwood were both promising players whose careers were ended by terrible injuries. Underwood's knee exploded, and that was it for him. Regardless of 'fault' or 'luck,' that's a 2nd and 4th round pick wasted really through no one's negligence. |
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Location: Somewhere along I-94 picking up feces. Or so I'm told.
Registered: 07-13-2000
Posts: 8271
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Posted
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