quote:

Originally posted by Timmy!:
...(when is the last time any of us have bitched about Schottenheimer?)...

Did he get better?

Is he simply the beneficiary of two great corners?

How closely is the DB's success tied to Sanders?

I could not stand the fact that this guy became/remained a coach on this staff. I was convinced it was nepotism only slightly removed.

So, now what do we think of him?

I think its more the players than Shot.
I have seen a lot of dumb mistakes, where the other team just didnt take advantage of them.
What MM sees in him is beyond me.

I think it's the players/level of talent as well.

Look at Tom Rossley. As OC for the Packers, GB was constantly in the top 5 and at times made it to the number 1 or 2 offense in the entire league.

Yet when Sherman was canned, how many in the NFL ran after to go and grab him? If memory serves, he's totally out of football.

My guess is same thing would occur with Schott.

Pass Rush
Pass Rush
Pass Rush

I know it's tough to consider, but perhaps it's possible that we as fans don't know squat... I've been as big a critic as anyone in regards to the less successful Shoot-n-booter brother, but results are results, and as soon as stools like Roman, Manual and Hwy 28 mercifully went by the wayside, the DB's suddenly got better. It's been written in more than one place this week as well how much better Bush has gotten, and some of that credit should go to Washington, but I think we need to look at all the reasons for the secondary's level of play.

quote:

Originally posted by FreeSafety:
Pass Rush
Pass Rush
Pass Rush

You are correct sir! Makes any secondary look much better.

quote:

Originally posted by The Nerve:

quote:

Originally posted by FreeSafety:
Pass Rush
Pass Rush
Pass Rush

You are correct sir! Makes any secondary look much better.

So, these guys have a lot to do with it?

quote:

Originally posted by The Nerve:

quote:

Originally posted by FreeSafety:
Pass Rush
Pass Rush
Pass Rush

You are correct sir! Makes any secondary look much better.

I concur. And I'll mention the improved LB play. It helps when your DBs don't have to do it all themselves. It is a team game.

Fire Schottenheimer now!

(Seriously could it be that bad? Washington already gets all the DB coach press time.)

Schottenheimer's done a great job here. Not only have some of the young players shown solid improvement, but I think even a veteran like Woodson is playing a much better, more physical game than he did last year.

quote:

Fire Schottenheimer now! Mad

Does the coach make the player great or does the player make the coach great?

Does the coach come before the player or does the player come before the coach?

Now about chickens...

When things begin to go well at the top, then everything else seems to fall in place also.

There's probably no real way for any of us to tell how Shotty is doing as a coach. We all know his pedigree and the likely reason he joined the staff in the first place.

Some coaches are better at taking established talent and getting the most out of them, other are better at developing youngsters. The only things I am nearly certain on are 1)Shotty handles safeties and Washington gets CBs and 2)some reports indicate the system Shotty brought is cerebral.

Last year the DB's were all over the field except where the ball was. This year the DL has consistent pressure and the CB's have been tighter in coverage. Maybe a year of the system helped everyone out, or it has been simplified, or maybe the defense as a whole hides the mistakes made in the secondary. The youngsters have all improved throughout the season, imo, and the defense as a whole has solidified so maybe getting rid of Shottenheimer right now would be a bad move.

MM seems to have made everyone a notch more acountable this year so if there is any real problem with Shotty I'd guess he gets the axe (or moves on to a better job) at the end of the season.

In TT & M3 we trust.

I have cracked the Shotty is better secret. Marty is coaching the DB's this year since he didn't have anything better to do! You know saving his brother from guys like BRAK and me and aw hell all of us on this board!

Talent (on the field) trumps all.

Aren't they ranked like 20th against the pass?? Not overly impressive to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Caveman:
Aren't they ranked like 20th against the pass?? Not overly impressive to me.

Agreed, not overly impressive ...

The Pack is tied for 18th with KC in passing yards given up per game at 213.3. I'm not sold on Shotts and probably never will be, but maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong.

If you ask me (and I'm aware that none of you did) I think we have two all-world CBs that are doing a great job despite being coached by that incompetent boob.

You can't use Bigby as an argument - he's too new. But how much has Collins improved since his rookie year? And why can't we cover tight ends? That's who we're giving up our yardage to. We're ranked 20th because we're getting killed by TEs.

Screw that moron. He should be in the unemployment line with Marty.

They are ranked where they are because teams have trouble running on them and have to pass to keep up with the Packers offense.

Schott is a position coach. I'd be concerned if they were asking him to scheme for an opposing offense. All they ask him to do is stay out of the way of Harris and Woodson.

Sucks. My opinion won't change. Let him sit in a office and draw up strategies but let someone else do the actual coaching.

quote:

Originally posted by Brak:

So, these guys have a lot to do with it?

They sure do. AK74 & KGB. They found a great role for KGB and that's pass rush specialist. Nobody this side of Dwight Freeney has the first step that KGB has. Nobody.

I never understood all the bashing or praise of the previous regimes. It's completely pointless.

Where would you rather be than right here, right now?

I don't know how much coaching Schottenheimer does. Jurt's official title is "secondary"

http://www.packers.com/team/coaches/

Something tells me Lionel Washington is coaching up the DB's while Schott is putting schemes or suggestions together. Just a guess on my part.

It's only fair to give a coach credit when things are going well. I think we all have our eyes on him though.

Our overlord FRZ asked us:

quote:

Where would you rather be than right here, right now?

I'd rather be 9-0, unless it comes with a coach who deliberately violates NFL rules.

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:
Sucks. My opinion won't change. Let him sit in a office and draw up strategies but let someone else do the actual coaching.

I think the opposite is true, let him coach players but keep him away fromt he strategies / planning. As a position coach he has done okay but whenever he worked as a DC he couldn't handle the whole shabang. As DB coach under Shermy I think Sherman let him have too much say and he didn't stay focused on the DB's.

quote:

Originally posted by Hungry5:

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:
Sucks. My opinion won't change. Let him sit in a office and draw up strategies but let someone else do the actual coaching.

I think the opposite is true, let him coach players but keep him away fromt he strategies / planning. As a position coach he has done okay but whenever he worked as a DC he couldn't handle the whole shabang. As DB coach under Shermy I think Sherman let him have too much say and he didn't stay focused on the DB's.

Everything I've read about Schottenheimer has mentioned he is not a good people person so to speak. He's not very involved in the practices and is more involved with game planning.

Personally, I don't want the guy doing anything but if this is truly a defense that clones Bates scheme, there isn't a whole lot of game planning to be done. Guys are supposed to be assignment sure more than anything and that comes from hands on coaching. Considering Woodson and Harris play a lot of man to man, I don't see much influence from Schottenheimer in the first place.

My concern with Schottenheimer coaching the CBs is with the young guys who need coaching. I'm more concerned with a big drop off in CB play when Harris and Woodson are gone. I'd really prefer he doesn't have any hands on coaching with the young guys.

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:
I'm more concerned with a big drop off in CB play when Harris and Woodson are gone.

I think that's going to happen no matter what. And that will be a tough pill