quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by The Artist fka TD:
You could've addressed those threads you were wrong about. You know 90% of the crap you threw on the wall hoping it would stick.

I find it an interesting study to see that because I don't share thoughts about ONE former Packers player I've been mocked and ridiculed. It would've been so much easier had I just pretended to be like you.

I never hoped anything would stick... I hoped I'd be wrong and I was. How was I to know he'd study last season for the first time in his career? I expected another 70 some QB rating with 30 picks. I'm glad to be wrong.

Halleluja! Ok, NOW we're getting somewhere. But you have to know that Mike Holmgren certainly didn't let Favre get away without studying. It's amazing what a good coach can do.

Here is Brett in his own words from the retirement presser courtesy Packers.com...

And Mike knows this, there were numerous Saturdays (before) home games where I was here at 8:30 at night watching film. I had never done that before. It was never enough for me. And Deanna knows this, after numerous games I would come home and after a couple of hours I had the computer out and I was watching film of the upcoming opponent instead of enjoying the win we just had. At some point, you've got to relax and enjoy and I found myself not enjoying it as much. It's fun to win but you've got to enjoy it and relax a little bit. That more than anything was taking its toll on me.

Even Holmgren couldn't get him to watch tape on the nights before games. He'd never done it before last season.

Back to the orginal topic about Jackson

This idea that he "should have been cut" is one of the dumber things I've read on this site. Did the Jackson critics ever stop to think that the OL was somewhat unsettled AND Jackson got the majority of reps in the preseason camps and training camp? The guy was overwhelmed and worn out, and you see that from a lot of rookies.

What was important is how he played toward the end of the year- I'm more of a believer in that trend than how he did in meaningless preseason games or training camp activities.

Clearly he has enough ability to succeed and at the very least I think he'll be a competent backup to Grant. If he performs well enough he might even be a starter at some point.

Lord, I hate the offseason. Everyone looks good in shorts. Most posters want a pissing match to pass the time. How long 'til real games?

quote:

Originally posted by Tschmack:
Back to the orginal topic about Jackson

This idea that he "should have been cut" is one of the dumber things I've read on this site. Did the Jackson critics ever stop to think that the OL was somewhat unsettled AND Jackson got the majority of reps in the preseason camps and training camp? The guy was overwhelmed and worn out, and you see that from a lot of rookies.

What was important is how he played toward the end of the year- I'm more of a believer in that trend than how he did in meaningless preseason games or training camp activities.

Clearly he has enough ability to succeed and at the very least I think he'll be a competent backup to Grant. If he performs well enough he might even be a starter at some point.

The OL had nothing to do with him falling down and backward on the slightest of contact. There was no way to justify how terrible he looked as far as explosion and ability to break tackles go. Corey White was superior to him in both regards and he's not very good.

I don't understand why he was so poor.

As far as me suggesting he be cut...I was saying if he wasn't a high pick he would've... and I'm fairly certain he would have based on what he showed. He couldn't block to save his life, either, and that was well documented throughout the pre-season. So, if you have a guy that has no explosion, goes down on first contact, and can't pick up blitzers he probably shouldn't be making your team.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
The OL had nothing to do with him falling down and backward on the slightest of contact. There was no way to justify how terrible he looked as far as explosion and ability to break tackles go. Corey White was superior to him in both regards and he's not very good.

I don't understand why he was so poor.

As far as me suggesting he be cut...I was saying if he wasn't a high pick he would've... and I'm fairly certain he would have based on what he showed. He couldn't block to save his life, either, and that was well documented throughout the pre-season. So, if you have a guy that has no explosion, goes down on first contact, and can't pick up blitzers he probably shouldn't be making your team.

The OL had everything to do with it. There were absolutely ZERO holes open for Jackson the first few games. He had nowhere to run and was forced to dance and make a hole. Could he have done better? Absolutely but he wasn't nearly as bad as you say. LT couldn't have run behind Daryn Colledge who can't drive block worth a pooh.

Then the Oline got a little better and opened more holes which helped Deshawn Wynn rip off a few good runs. Then they got better and opened good holes for Grant who exploded through them like a freakin train. And then, at the end of the year, the Oline was doing pretty well and coincidentally Brandon Jackson didn't look so bad...hmmm I wonder what the common theme was?

EVERYTHING starts up front bud. I played center for a long time and NOTHING happens if the line isn't blocking well.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by Tschmack:
Back to the orginal topic about Jackson

This idea that he "should have been cut" is one of the dumber things I've read on this site. Did the Jackson critics ever stop to think that the OL was somewhat unsettled AND Jackson got the majority of reps in the preseason camps and training camp? The guy was overwhelmed and worn out, and you see that from a lot of rookies.

What was important is how he played toward the end of the year- I'm more of a believer in that trend than how he did in meaningless preseason games or training camp activities.

Clearly he has enough ability to succeed and at the very least I think he'll be a competent backup to Grant. If he performs well enough he might even be a starter at some point.

The OL had nothing to do with him falling down and backward on the slightest of contact. There was no way to justify how terrible he looked as far as explosion and ability to break tackles go. Corey White was superior to him in both regards and he's not very good.

I don't understand why he was so poor.

As far as me suggesting he be cut...I was saying if he wasn't a high pick he would've... and I'm fairly certain he would have based on what he showed. He couldn't block to save his life, either, and that was well documented throughout the pre-season. So, if you have a guy that has no explosion, goes down on first contact, and can't pick up blitzers he probably shouldn't be making your team.

Once again you ignore the other points that I made about his youth. Even in the latest blurbs about Jackson McCarthy states he didn't get to learn the system in a natural progression and was thrown to the wolves. Yeah, he did look sloppy but you seem to infer he doesn't have the talent to play. When your head is spinning it affects everything, including the physical elements of the game.

I think both fans and the organization expected too much of the kid right away. Luckily, TT had a great fall back plan.

New year same stupid posts by Change of Panties...

Hey Herschel, did Jackson fix that fumbling problem yet?

I think Grant and Jackson will be a solid combo. I look for their production to increase this year and the OL to continue to develop helping Rodgers offset the loss of Favre.

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by Tschmack:
Back to the orginal topic about Jackson

This idea that he "should have been cut" is one of the dumber things I've read on this site. Did the Jackson critics ever stop to think that the OL was somewhat unsettled AND Jackson got the majority of reps in the preseason camps and training camp? The guy was overwhelmed and worn out, and you see that from a lot of rookies.

What was important is how he played toward the end of the year- I'm more of a believer in that trend than how he did in meaningless preseason games or training camp activities.

Clearly he has enough ability to succeed and at the very least I think he'll be a competent backup to Grant. If he performs well enough he might even be a starter at some point.

The OL had nothing to do with him falling down and backward on the slightest of contact. There was no way to justify how terrible he looked as far as explosion and ability to break tackles go. Corey White was superior to him in both regards and he's not very good.

I don't understand why he was so poor.

As far as me suggesting he be cut...I was saying if he wasn't a high pick he would've... and I'm fairly certain he would have based on what he showed. He couldn't block to save his life, either, and that was well documented throughout the pre-season. So, if you have a guy that has no explosion, goes down on first contact, and can't pick up blitzers he probably shouldn't be making your team.

Once again you ignore the other points that I made about his youth. Even in the latest blurbs about Jackson McCarthy states he didn't get to learn the system in a natural progression and was thrown to the wolves. Yeah, he did look sloppy but you seem to infer he doesn't have the talent to play. When your head is spinning it affects everything, including the physical elements of the game.

I think both fans and the organization expected too much of the kid right away. Luckily, TT had a great fall back plan.

Am I wrong or wasn't he about the exact same age as AD? ( I just looked and BJ is 8.5 months older than Adrian Peterson)

He might be good...NOW. He sure LOOKED terrible back then. That's all.

A buddy of mine who covers the Packers told me he really liked him after I came to the conclusion he looked sucky. I was shocked.

The Oline has zero to do with how quickly you go down on first contact. ZERO. He showed no power at all. Corey White showed more than he did when given the same opportunity.

Whatever was wrong with him I'm glad it's apparently fixed.

If he has a great year make sure not to credit him...credit the oline. If you're going to say he was poor because of the oline then if he's good it has to be the oline also.

quote:

Originally posted by Tschmack:
Back to the orginal topic about Jackson

This idea that he "should have been cut" is one of the dumber things I've read on this site. Did the Jackson critics ever stop to think that the OL was somewhat unsettled AND Jackson got the majority of reps in the preseason camps and training camp? The guy was overwhelmed and worn out, and you see that from a lot of rookies.

What was important is how he played toward the end of the year- I'm more of a believer in that trend than how he did in meaningless preseason games or training camp activities.

Clearly he has enough ability to succeed and at the very least I think he'll be a competent backup to Grant. If he performs well enough he might even be a starter at some point.

True enough !! Jackson didn't come in with a lot of college starts under his belt. I think he came in too wide eyed, and too wet behind the ears, and was doing more thinking than just reacting. The Packers probably didn't do him any favors pressing him into action. As the year went on he progressed, and by years end he looked like an entirely different player. That happens with some seasoning.

McCarthy even admitted as much this past week from what I remember of the conversation. Jackson got way too many reps and it hurt his performance. Remember how many carries he'd get early on? A lot. That stuff matters.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by Tschmack:
Back to the orginal topic about Jackson

This idea that he "should have been cut" is one of the dumber things I've read on this site. Did the Jackson critics ever stop to think that the OL was somewhat unsettled AND Jackson got the majority of reps in the preseason camps and training camp? The guy was overwhelmed and worn out, and you see that from a lot of rookies.

What was important is how he played toward the end of the year- I'm more of a believer in that trend than how he did in meaningless preseason games or training camp activities.

Clearly he has enough ability to succeed and at the very least I think he'll be a competent backup to Grant. If he performs well enough he might even be a starter at some point.

The OL had nothing to do with him falling down and backward on the slightest of contact. There was no way to justify how terrible he looked as far as explosion and ability to break tackles go. Corey White was superior to him in both regards and he's not very good.

I don't understand why he was so poor.

As far as me suggesting he be cut...I was saying if he wasn't a high pick he would've... and I'm fairly certain he would have based on what he showed. He couldn't block to save his life, either, and that was well documented throughout the pre-season. So, if you have a guy that has no explosion, goes down on first contact, and can't pick up blitzers he probably shouldn't be making your team.

Once again you ignore the other points that I made about his youth. Even in the latest blurbs about Jackson McCarthy states he didn't get to learn the system in a natural progression and was thrown to the wolves. Yeah, he did look sloppy but you seem to infer he doesn't have the talent to play. When your head is spinning it affects everything, including the physical elements of the game.

I think both fans and the organization expected too much of the kid right away. Luckily, TT had a great fall back plan.

Am I wrong or wasn't he about the exact same age as AD? ( I just looked and BJ is 8.5 months older than Adrian Peterson)

He might be good...NOW. He sure LOOKED terrible back then. That's all.

A buddy of mine who covers the Packers told me he really liked him after I came to the conclusion he looked sucky. I was shocked.

The Oline has zero to do with how quickly you go down on first contact. ZERO. He showed no power at all. Corey White showed more than he did when given the same opportunity.

Whatever was wrong with him I'm glad it's apparently fixed.

If he has a great year make sure not to credit him...credit the oline. If you're going to say he was poor because of the oline then if he's good it has to be the oline also.

Poor choice of words on my part. I should've said "playing time" or "experience" instead of actual age. Are you really going to compare Jackson to Petersen?

Jackson had an injury which hampered him in 2007. Here is the quote:

quote:

Oct. 6, 2007 - 9:12 a.m. ET
Despite being upgraded to questionable Friday, Brandon Jackson (shin) remains unlikely to play against the Bears.

This shin injury is really causing the rookie some problems. He's only practiced once in the last two weeks. DeShawn Wynn will likely start Sunday night, with a healthy Vernand Morency and Ryan Grant eating into his load.

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

The link:
http://fantasybaseball.usatoday.com/content/player_news...&id=4234&line=110418

I recalled the injury but could determine when it was and what it was. So I needed some proof and found this in a search. And, as Tschmack indicated, it happened in part because of overuse during TC when others were hurting. As he healed, his performance pick up.

I think he will do fine this year.

Unless you're saying he came to TC hurt then that injury is irrelevant. He was terrible in his FIRST action as a Packer. Absolutely terrible.

If he was injured at that point then there's an excuse...if not...there isn't one...he was just plain awful.

I was impressed with him by season's end. He started reminding me of Edgar Bennett whom I always appreciated.

If you can't win the starting job in Green Bay last year with what we had...well... it speaks for itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
A buddy of mine who covers the Packers told me he really liked him after I came to the conclusion he looked sucky.

I gotta call BS on this. No way you have a buddy.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
How was I to know he'd study last season for the first time in his career?

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Here is Brett in his own words from the retirement presser courtesy Packers.com...

And Mike knows this, there were numerous Saturdays (before) home games where I was here at 8:30 at night watching film. I had never done that before. It was never enough for me. And Deanna knows this, after numerous games I would come home and after a couple of hours I had the computer out and I was watching film of the upcoming opponent instead of enjoying the win we just had. At some point, you've got to relax and enjoy and I found myself not enjoying it as much. It's fun to win but you've got to enjoy it and relax a little bit. That more than anything was taking its toll on me.

Even Holmgren couldn't get him to watch tape on the nights before games. He'd never done it before last season.

I thought you said he never studied before last season?

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Unless you're saying he came to TC hurt then that injury is irrelevant. He was terrible in his FIRST action as a Packer. Absolutely terrible.

For what it worth. Probably not much because your mind is made up.

Anyway, I was there in person for GBs first TC workout. My son & I went. I did not get that impression. He might not always been assignment sure, but he showed a lot of energy. I'm sure when coaches talked with him after a play, it was probably about some aspect of the play he need to improve on. None of us running those plays for the first time would do them correctly in every aspect - so why should we expect it of rookies who probably had never seen an NFL play book before they joined their teams. But energy, quickness, speed weren't issues then - judging from what I saw. So his injury problems came later. And yes, the OL improved as the season went on. The combination of healthier RBs and an improving OL does wonders for a running game.

Anyway, physical ability was there that day, knowledge wasn't as much. For that I would not call him "sucky". Later in the year when physical ability and knowledge showed up together, you saw the improved results.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghost of Lambeau:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Unless you're saying he came to TC hurt then that injury is irrelevant. He was terrible in his FIRST action as a Packer. Absolutely terrible.

For what it worth. Probably not much because your mind is made up.

Anyway, I was there in person for GBs first TC workout. My son & I went. I did not get that impression. He might not always been assignment sure, but he showed a lot of energy. I'm sure when coaches talked with him after a play, it was probably about some aspect of the play he need to improve on. None of us running those plays for the first time would do them correctly in every aspect - so why should we expect it of rookies who probably had never seen an NFL play book before they joined their teams. But energy, quickness, speed weren't issues then - judging from what I saw. So his injury problems came later. And yes, the OL improved as the season went on. The combination of healthier RBs and an improving OL does wonders for a running game.

Anyway, physical ability was there that day, knowledge wasn't as much. For that I would not call him "sucky". Later in the year when physical ability and knowledge showed up together, you saw the improved results.

I hope you're right... I wasn't at TC. My buddy was and he saw what you saw. I saw the pre-season games...In those, ALL OF THEM, he looked very, very poor.

In fact, in that very link posted talking of his injury the top posting shows how little TT thought of him at that point...

Packers GM Ted Thompson says "the jury's still out" on Brandon Jackson.
Thompson gave his assessment of the Packers' 2007 draft class on Friday and didn't have much positive to say about Jackson other than calling him a "heady player" who he doesn't consider "a small back." Jackson should get another chance to play next offseason, but has fallen well behind Ryan Grant.

Our very own GM who should have positives to say if anyone does did not. His lack of praise regarding Jackson should speak volumes to his disappointment. "The jury is still out" was used a lot in reference to Jamal Reynolds. I know TT wasn't here for that but there was nothing good to say about him...He was a TERRIBLE blocker and had no burst or tackle breaking ability... I'm pleased as punch he's improving and hopefully he'll be much better in year 2. I'm hoping for the opposite of a sophomore slump.

Here's some tidbits from the JSOnline.com and packersnews.com on Jackson last TC...and...there was nothing positive being written about his running, either.

For starters, here's Bedard on him...

Brandon Jackson has obviously disappointed. I thought he might be a steal in the second round, but so far he has shown an alarming lack of instincts and has little confidence hitting the hole. He needs a good game against the Titans so he can carry over some positive thoughts into the regular season. Because the Packers won't go anywhere this season without a viable running game

from JSOnline.com...
Jackson was steamrolled in blitz pickup drills, first by linebacker A.J. Hawk on Saturday, then by linebacker Nick Barnett Sunday. Jackson also seemed to be thinking too much, which led to indecisiveness at times.

From Packersnews.com
Thumbs down

There's one sure-fire way for a running back to lose his starting job — repeatedly botch the blitz pick-up drill in training camp.

The sooner rookie Brandon Jackson figures that out, the better off his quarterbacks will be and the better his chances will be to secure the starting job.

Once again, Jackson missed a blitz pickup during a team period in which the defense blitzes on every play. He barely grazed linebacker Nick Barnett, who had a free shot at quarterback Aaron Rodgers. At least Jackson managed to touch Barnett on that play. Earlier in training camp, both Barnett and fellow linebacker A.J. Hawk steamrolled Jackson on separate plays during the same drill.

It's a good thing for the sake of the quarterbacks that it was only practice, because if it happened in a game, one of them might have gotten drilled.

Jackson's problem is he's too tentative. Instead of heading off the blitzer by stepping into him, he sits back and waits. By then, the blitzing player has all the momentum, and Jackson is left flat-footed.

Jackson has received the bulk of the reps with the No. 1 offense since Vernand Morency went down with a knee injury on July 28, but the coaching staff might have to consider taking Jackson out — especially in obvious passing situations — if he can't figure out how to pick up blitzes.

from Omaha.com

Jackson heard whispers along the way that he was a draft bust — 63rd overall and the sixth running back taken in 2007. The native of Horn Lake, Miss., would prefer that people give him more of a chance. Whether in the backfield or on special teams, he feels as if he's contributed when he's played for a Green Bay team that improved from 8-8 to 13-3.

With all due respect, I don't know why you guys are arguing so fiercely over how awful Jackson was or wasn't in the preseason of his rookie year. What difference does it make now?