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 Location: San Diego
Registered: 12-19-2005
Posts: 7306
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Posted
The answer to all of your questions above is, "You don't know, and neither does anyone else not directly associated with the situation." That's what needs to be defined, and no reasonable judgments/opinions can be formed until/unless that happens. Add me to the list of folks who believe, "And that's all I have to say about thatttt."  |
 Location: Somewhere
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 13595
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Posted
The problem is that FS fails to recognize that there are rules in place for what they were/are doing. The end. I know FS likes to think that the officials and rules committee are never wrong so those who argue him, give up.
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 Location: Pitying the fools
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 7754
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Posted
Right, we don't know the answers to those questions.
Everybody assumes the Pats gained something significant from the filming. I would not be surprised if all teams have been keeping hand written notes and creating libraries on every other team for years and Billy B just said one day, "just video the other sideline to make it easier ". He got punished and now he will go back to the old way of doing it. All the same info is still available, there is no huge competitive advantage, they just have to go back to collecting it the old fashion way. Artist, where have I failed to recognize that the Pats broke the rules? |
 Location: Siberia
Registered: 01-10-2004
Posts: 10460
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Posted
Yes & yes Good luck drawing the hand signals on a piece of paper and using it in the same game. This is what they were doing & yes I believe it is a major factor in why they were so successful for about a 5 year period. Same thing with jamming the other teams signals while at Gillette stadium. If there is no huge competitive advantage then WHY would BB and company CONTINUE to do it after the league had written a memo to all 32 teams?!?!? BS!! This was a HUGE competitive advantage whether you want to see it or not. |
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Location: Pitying the fools
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 7754
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Posted
Why would that be so hard? Most teams use the same types of hand signals. Heck a lot of them are the same we've all used in HS. Why couldn't some kind of shorthand be used for each signal and a handwritten paper chart be created during the game? Why specifically is video better? How can the video show both the coaches signal and the down and distance at the same time better than a big paper chart? |
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Location: Sequoia Grove
Registered: 06-01-2004
Posts: 2295
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Posted
Can you read lips from a hand written chart ?
Can you email it, store it, sort it, break it down ? Can you run it back in super slow motion ? the video can be enhanced, enlarged, digitally manipulated video has sound, hand written notes do not video is a lot more useful than hand-written cards and that is why cheaters prefer digital video. |
 Location: Internet tough guy training camp
Registered: 09-20-2005
Posts: 3152
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Posted
PFT again.  Then why weren't the other teams brought into it and punished? Why didn't Belichik and/or the Patriots complain abotu the punishment (with a formal grievance) if they thought other teams were cheating as well? |
 Location: BoCo
Registered: 08-08-2004
Posts: 278
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Posted
I agree wholeheartedly that he's obviously brilliant.
But the more I read about this weird situation, the more I wonder if BB has some crazy unhealthy obsession with winning. It sounds like a serious mental illness. It's just too much to risk IMO, especially considering he's already gotten a slap on the wrist prior to this season for the same thing. Fans don't like cheaters, period. It ruins the fun of the game! He's going to become a tarnished icon in the NFL for this very reason, despite all his achievements. The Barry Bonds of the NFL, so to speak. Everyone's a conspiracy theorist these days, huh?  |
 Location: René Descartes was a drunken fart. 'I drink therefore I am.'
Registered: 01-11-2004
Posts: 8492
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Posted
everyone you say  it does run deeper than we thought |
 Location: Plymouth, WI, USA
Registered: 08-06-2000
Posts: 805
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Posted
I've heard that taping the walk-through vs. the Rams, especially, would give a very unfair advantage because the tapers would learn what plays of their arsenal would be "in" for the game. This would also let you know what plays you didn't really have to prepare for.
I don't see why it is hard to see how this would give an unfair advantage, nor do I see how the practice can be defended. If the Pats did tape that SB walk-through they should be stripped of that 'win' and lose the 1st rounder as in the present case. The best way to put a stop to stuff like this is to enforce the rules you have on the books. |
 Location: erie pa usa
Registered: 05-30-2000
Posts: 437
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Posted
They already have a video of the game from the end zone scoreboard/jumbotron and from the press box. They have a printed still from 2 seconds before and after each snap, with down and distance written on each page. You take down and distance, plus formations, plus immediate reactions of each player at each snap, and add to it exactly what each coach is doing before the snap, and it makes it easy to know exactly what the team is going to do. I can see Tom Brady watching video for hours preparing for the next opponent. Instead of being Brett Favre and seeing 59 razor work in an earlier Super Bowl and then using it during the game, Brady can see what the defense is going to do on 3rd and 7. He can see that if the coach drags his left arm across his chest that they're in a zone blitz or if he kicks his right foot that they're bringing a strong safety blitz. If he KNOWS the strong safety is coming on a delay blitz, he knows he has to get the ball out and he knows the tight end is open down the middle of the field. That's why it's cheating. |
 Location: st paul
Registered: 08-11-2007
Posts: 1231
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Posted
Because the tapes were destroyed. Belicheck was basically telling the commish that if he pushes the issue, that much, much more will come out. |
 Location: Sheboygan
Registered: 09-28-2006
Posts: 417
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Posted
I KNEW IT!  |
 Location: No longer wasted in WI, living clean and sober in Va Bch, Va. USA
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 8818
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Posted
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AmgIxwcpaM0Hq1rJM...it&prov=ap&type=lgns
Hummm, Walsh wanted certain assurances from the NFL. I wonder if getting the NFL to get these guys to pull their lawsuit was one of those assurances? |
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Location: Pitying the fools
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 7754
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Posted
None of this requires actually filming the signals. Notes can be taken on paper and actors can film themselves doing the signals and the same hours of video can be created for Brady to study before the next game. I would assume every team does something like this. Why wouldn't they? IMO Billy B. just flaunted the law and actually filmed the signals to make the process easier. I agree that filming is cheating since there is a rule against it. But I think Billy will just go back and do it the old fashion way like everybody else. I really don't care one way or the other. Just shooting the breeze during the off-season. |
 Location: Onalaska, WI
Registered: 01-19-2004
Posts: 205
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Posted
The first major difference between taping and writing down is the the NFL has made it a specific rule that you cannot tape signals.
The thing that starts to make me think is I begin to wonder if this is a change from Roselle and Tagliabue. The big thing has been parity for two commissioners. If the tough guy commish took a pick away from a team he knew had two number ones since they had been obviously caught, but destroyed further evidence of wrongdoing is he cheering for a dynasty. Does he think a one team dominance will be good for the league and is he making it happen? A little too conspiracy theory for me mostly, but there is something strange going on here. It would not take much for a commish to really hurt the little guys. Patriots game were in the five highest rated games of the year. Dynasty might appear to be money to him. |
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Location: Siberia
Registered: 01-10-2004
Posts: 10460
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Posted
Good lord! Please tell me which part of the next sentence you do not understand. The Patriots were filming signals DURING a game and using the information DURING the same GAME!!! Focus on the issue please!! Then, to top it off, they were archiving all their information for future use. C'mon man! Are you just arguing now for the sake of arguing?!?!??! |
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Location: Pitying the fools
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 7754
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Posted
I don't see where I have denied the theory that the tapes were used during the same game.
Why is it so wrong to respond to other people's statements about the Pats creating video libraries of each team, which I assume happens after the game?
And yes, I am arguing for the sake of arguing....because the offseason is pretty boring. |
 Location: WI
Registered: 03-25-2000
Posts: 3459
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Posted
Well, if it keeps ya from peeing on that lovely new statue in the front yard then keep at it.
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Location: IL
Registered: 06-26-2007
Posts: 458
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Posted
However, deep it goes, the NFL had better root it out and expose it to the public lest the same fate befall it as has the fraud formerly known as MLB. MLB saw, hear and spoke no evil about the juicer cheaters in their sport for many many years and are paying the price for defrauding the ticket-buying public. MLB has little credibility left. The NFL has already confirmed that at least one Super Bowl has been tainted by its cheating scandal. They cannot afford to just bury their collective head in the sand and pretend that nothing happened. How many teams have been doing this and for how many years? How many other games have been played under unfair conditions? Have any other Super Bowl outcomes been affected by this? Those who pay for the NFL tickets, purchase the braodcast rights, buy NFL merchandise all deserve to know how badly they've been defrauded over the years, and whether or not the league is serious about putting a stop to it. |
 Location: Private jets for my men!
Registered: 09-22-2002
Posts: 25283
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Posted
It's obvious you're in on it. |
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Location: WI
Registered: 03-25-2000
Posts: 3459
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Posted
I'll buy into that theory just as soon as MLB attendance starts to decline, rather than continuing to set attendance records. MLB won't do anything more than pay the issue lip service until either the Gov't gives them no choice or the fans stand up and say they've had enough. I don't think the NFL will treat this issue any more rigidly than MLB handled the juicers. |
 Location: "beat me like a rented mule" - Henry
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 20180
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Posted
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