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 Location: Siberia
Registered: 01-10-2004
Posts: 10460
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Posted
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 Location: "beat me like a rented mule" - Henry
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 20180
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Posted
How deep can it go? The Pats were spying on other teams. The end.
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 Location: Responsible posting since 2006
Registered: 01-22-2002
Posts: 9795
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Posted
I think the question should be here, "What did the President know, and when did he know it?"
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 Location: WI, USA
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 6555
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Posted
"...Six confiscated tapes and other documents pertaining to the Patriots’ taping were subsequently destroyed by the league. Goodell has defended the destruction of the tapes..."
However, "...As commissioner Goodell has repeatedly emphasized, `Nobody wants to hear from Matt Walsh more than the National Football League,’ NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Sunday night..."   |
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Location: "beat me like a rented mule" - Henry
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 20180
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Posted
I'll tell you one thing, if MM is not attempting to steal other teams signals I will be very disappointed in him. This is a big boys league, baby.
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Location: Siberia
Registered: 01-10-2004
Posts: 10460
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Posted
Stealing signals by using devices like Binoculars is allowed.
Taping defensive signals then showing down & distance between each play and creating a library of all teams is flat out cheating. Anyone that can't see the difference between the 2 is simply turning a blind eye. |
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Location: "beat me like a rented mule" - Henry
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 20180
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Posted
The difference is very small, IMO. Taking notes in real time rather than on camera. In baseball no distinction is made. |
 Location: Read my bio!!!
Registered: 01-06-2006
Posts: 2594
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Posted
b-b-b-ut b-belichek is the greatest coach of all time! They should name the Super Bowl trophy after him!!!!!111eleventy
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Registered: 01-10-2005
Posts: 1542
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Posted
The taping of signals during the game is one thing, but if there is any validity to the rumor that the Patriots taped the last walk through the Rams had before that Super Bowl, then this really is a big deal.
Overall, I can't believe how badly Goodell bungled this. What kind of idiot destroys the evidence as fast as he can? If there was nothing more to it (and that still may be correct), why not make the tapes available to any reporter who wants to see them so that none of this conspiracy stuff keeps coming up? |
 Location: René Descartes was a drunken fart. 'I drink therefore I am.'
Registered: 01-11-2004
Posts: 8492
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Posted
I think there are some tough guys from Vegas who lost a lot of money who will take care of this internally.
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Location: Siberia
Registered: 01-10-2004
Posts: 10460
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Posted
How is creating a library of all teams vs. using binocs in a game "a small difference??" Most people don't have a photographic memory to remember EVERY teams different signals, which do change from game to game and season to season. The difference is gigantic. |
 Location: #4 for MVP. Magical Season again.
Registered: 04-11-2002
Posts: 4200
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Posted
also, mic"ing" up your defensive players to tape audibles and cadences. Feeding players prior to the game scripted formations and what play(s) will come out of them.
You have to be beyond naive to think this stuff doesn't make a big difference. Coaching/playcalling can make a huge difference in the NFL, if you know what is coming, you can stop it alot more easily than you can if you do not. Taping/recording/in game recording/analysis and breakdown of signs is flat out cheating. |
 Location: San Diego
Registered: 12-19-2005
Posts: 7306
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Posted
IMHO, the bottom line is this:
I think we'll all agree that Bellislime is incredibly intelligent, and this intelligence has been the biggest factor (aside from Tom Brady) in his success as a coach. Folks may disagree, but I don't think we'd find anyone who seriously thought BB was a dunderhead. That said and stipulated, he obviously thought doing this was worth the effort. They got busted/scolded once, and kept doing it. They got the league-wide memo even after that, and kept doing it. If someone as smart as BB was willing to risk all of this, I think it's safe to assume that the difference it made was more than 'very little' or 'no big deal.' He wouldn't risk everything for something insignificant. I also agree with others in that RG was a fool for destroying this evidence if it was indeed innocuous. That's why I don't think it was - since we're forced to deal with this on a speculative level thanks to that immediate destruction, it's reasonable to offer a theory that this could have opened a huge Pandora's Box, and the NFL wanted to avoid that. We shall see - hopefully. |
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Location: "beat me like a rented mule" - Henry
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 20180
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Posted
Take an assistant coach, tell him to watch and document signals on paper in real time.It has been done since the beginning of time...or the beginning of the NFL, anyway. BTW, so has the taping of signals. The Pats were neither the first nor the last to do it(yes, my opinion). I think Goodell hit them nice and hard. Much harder than Tags' punishment of the Niners and the Broncos for their cheating scandals. Furthermore, the NFL has acknowledged that this was going on, yet folks continue on as if there were some great secret hidden. The attention is bad for the NFL. I wish it would go away. Walsh is going to tell us what we all already know. The Pats cheated...OFTEN. This nonsense reminds me of baseball's steroid scandal. Keeping it out there has done more damage than good. Selig should have moved on. Gooddell tried to do so, but that idiot Spector, had to get involved. |
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Location: "beat me like a rented mule" - Henry
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 20180
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Posted
Good post. Perhaps you are right about the destroyed tapes. I just can't imagine the concealed info would be any worse than taping games, in the eyes of the public. BTW, teams also bring in cut players to collect info. I imagine that "inside info" is more potent than collecting film. BTW, I am not arguing that what the Pats did was cheating. Clearly it was. But, in a league full of cheats... |
 Location: Pitying the fools
Registered: 02-02-2000
Posts: 7754
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Posted
There is no difference. Any assistant coach could make a list of the signals on paper and then create a library once he matches his notes up with the game film. I'd bet $1 that every NFL team and hundreds of college teams do this. In fact sifting through video of the signals would actually be more work than having them written down on paper IMO. |
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Location: San Diego
Registered: 12-19-2005
Posts: 7306
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Posted
How many $500,000 fines and forfeitures of 1st-round picks have resulted from taking notes? I think this comes back to the same foundational issue - we as fans simply do not know exactly what sort of information was gathered and what sort of advantage was gained, and short of additional disclosure/proof, we never will. If we were ever made privy to those factors, I think it'd be easier to agree what should or would happen. And yes, I think that was as the $$$ contributors deserve to know of anything that could even potentially affect the integrity of the games, ESPECIALLY if these actions did not do so. The fact is that you have no idea if there is a difference, nor does anyone else who doesn't work in the league, myself included. That's why we need/deserve to know. |
 Location: Internet tough guy training camp
Registered: 09-20-2005
Posts: 3152
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Posted
Then why is the league only banning video? |
 Location: st paul
Registered: 08-11-2007
Posts: 1231
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Posted
Unless there was WAY MORE on the tapes. PFT suggests that Belichek included evidence of a whole bunch of other teams cheating too, and the tapes were destroyed, because the scandal was too deep. With Arlen "Magic Bullet Theory" Specter getting involved, the whole thing becomes surreal. |
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Location: st paul
Registered: 08-11-2007
Posts: 1231
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Posted
I'd say they were MAKING alot of money. About $10 mil of which will go to Matt Walsh to stfu and go away. |
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Location: st paul
Registered: 08-11-2007
Posts: 1231
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Posted
The biggest factor effecting the integrity of the game is the rise of SUBJECTIVE penalties by the refs. It started out with holding. Now holding can be called on ANY play, or just about. Right now, the pass interference rules are a joke. A guy can be ruled out of bounds or not, based on whether the ref "thinks" he would have come down in bounds if he wasnt pushed. In other words, if the ref wants to give him the catch. We saw this go against us both ways this year. It seems to me that ALL the rule changes in the past 20+ years have INCREASED "ref subjectivity." Remember how the Seahawks got robbed of the superbowl agains the Steelers? The Packers got robbed repeatedly this year. If you want to solidify the integrity of the game, why not change the rules to OBJECTIVE criteria? Why create even the APPEARANCE of impropriety? This past superbowl was arguably effected by the arbitrary ability of the refs to stop the clock for measurement "if they want to," even though they didn't end up doing a measurement! Why not create a system of rules that doesn't even have the POSSIBILITY of manipulation? That's what I say. |
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Location: San Diego
Registered: 12-19-2005
Posts: 7306
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Posted
I don't disagree with objective standards behind rules like PI, etc., but I don't think that's realistic or possible. I wish it was, but it isn't, which is how and why things result the way they do. In this case, there was an objective standard apparently in place - no taping of signals - and it was violated and punished. However, the offense that was penalized was for the first game this season. If NE taped STL's red zone plays and signals the day before the SB, then that's a different issue and a different offense.
If a thief is caught and convicted of robbery for an incident that occurred last month, and then is subsequently implicated for a robbery that was potentially worth more and occurred years ago, that offense wouldn't be swept under the rug as 'already handled' if the D.A. wanted to keep his or her job. Same objective standards apply here, but objective decisions as to whether this was handled properly cannot be made until all the ascertainable facts are disclosed. |
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Location: Siberia
Registered: 01-10-2004
Posts: 10460
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Posted
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