quote:

Originally posted by Fedya:

quote:

Originally posted by The Artist fka TD:
It sucks Rodgers was booed, but remember Family Night doesn't cost the trailers park people lots of money like a game would. Maybe they should raise th ticket prices so the Favreaholics can't come with their 6 kids or maybe move the stadium so the ones who can't read won't find it.

Do you really have any evidence of the average financial status of those at Family Night as compared to those at the regular games, or are you just blinded by your bigotry against those who are fans of Favre?

Look, we get the point: you despise Favre, and you seem to have a visceral hate for those who are still fans of Favre. You also seem to have a visceral hate for people who don't share your cultural values. Arguing on the basis of your hatreds rather than arguing on the basis of facts doesn't make your arguments any more convincing.

Actually, it makes him/her appear uneducated. Which I doubt is actually the case. But sometimes perception can be reality.

I'll tell you this.

Last night was my first time in my new club seats.

$208 face value each. I asked everybody around me if they were season ticket holders and would be in those seats all year.

None were.

Zero.

And just by appearance, I'd say most of them couldn't afford those seats.

So, I think Artist may have a valid point.

quote:

Originally posted by CJS:

We disagree 49-1? Mondale to Reagan? I assume that is the degree to which we disagree verses how right you think you are verses how right you think I am. Favre, regardless of how he played in the Giants game, was the MVP of the Packers and the NFL last season if not for a historical season by Tom Brady. Even if there were sentimental votes in there, you can't tell me he wasn't a top 5 QB in the league last year. Therefore, I don't see how the point of Brett finishing second in MVP voting is not valid as a gauge of Brett's performance in 2007.

As for the second point, yes he DOES have to prove that he's focused and dedicated to the job. Do you really think he won't be dedicated? One of the most competitive QB's of all time, not giving his all (physically AND mentally) to win his job and prove that he deserves to hold it? If you believe that he won't, or can't, I don't think you understand Brett Favre very well.

However, I have to admit it's quite possible that Rodgers is the better QB for the changed offense that McCarthy wants to run. If that is the case - and Rodgers wins the job, that's ok with me. I just want the best player out there.

As I stated in an earlier post, I thought Favre had a GREAT first 2/3-or-so of the season, but after week 11, he was wildly inconsistent and overall was average - very good one week simply awful the next. I also think that's a potential trend worth watching for and one that often accompanies advancing age. Not even the Great Brett Favre can defy Father Time, and he's a year older now. Especially since he appeared to check out mentally at least once during that 'average' portion of his season.

I don't think he "won't" be dedicated. I said we can't be sure if he is or not, a view apparently shared by management, right or wrong. The guy spent the first part of the offseason on the talk show circuit, the second part bored out of his mind and hemming and hawing on retirement, and the final part of it working out with high school kids and running stairs with Deanna. Did the trainer who has helped him tremendously ever show up in MS? If not, that's a potential problem, and anyone who still trains into his 30's, as I do, understands that as you get older, training rigorously grows exponentially in importance. Those who think otherwise may think they know and understand Brett Favre, but they don't understand nature and physics if they think he can half-ass his offseason at this age and just show up and play at a high level. Again, I'm not saying he CAN'T or WON'T, but that at this point it is a legitimate question and one that has to be proven. It seems we agree on that front.

Favre is competitive, no debate here - but sometimes that's his own worst enemy - see "Hero" Favre games in the past, where he tried to put the whole team on his shoulders - which he had to do at times - and win it himself. That Favre tries every throw, plays without discipline and turns it over at a disgusting rate. We don't know which side of Favre's competitive nature will be on display during TC, but my point is we should all be ready for either, and nothing, absolutely nothing should be assumed with him at this point whatsoever. Not after all that's happened, or not happened, since January.

Which point may he have?

That Family Night attendees are more likely to not be season ticket holders? (Which may well be true.)

Or that they're more likely to be Favre fans? (Which is certainly unprovable and probably not true.)

Or that they're more likely to be poor, or uneducated, or both? (See above.)

Nobody generalizing about a majority of Packers fans based on the people sitting around them, or the people on a message board, or anything, has a valid point.

I know what I saw.

Just because something is technically unprovable doesn't mean it isn't true.

quote:

Originally posted by JJSD:
Favre is competitive, no debate here - but sometimes that's his own worst enemy - see "Hero" Favre games in the past, where he tried to put the whole team on his shoulders - which he had to do at times - and win it himself. That Favre tries every throw, plays without discipline and turns it over at a disgusting rate. We don't know which side of Favre's competitive nature will be on display during TC, but my point is we should all be ready for either, and nothing, absolutely nothing should be assumed with him at this point whatsoever. Not after all that's happened, or not happened, since January.

I actually think his undisciplined throws happen when he loses that competitive edge in a game, gets frustrated and sort of "gives up". It concerns me that he has not overcome that demon as of late. If Favre wins the job, he'll hopefully win it by showing disciplined play, letting the run game set up the pass and letting the defense keep the game close.

Is anyone else a bit upset that our team's "QB situation" has deteriorated fan discussions to an argument about the various income classes of Packers fans?

I understand that Favre/TT/MM/Rodgers merits discussion, however some of this is getting to be a bit embarrassing to read.

Don't fool yourselves guys & gals, it doesn't matter if AR is the better QB...Favre will start. The only way AR starts is if Favre is traded, and I hope that happens soon.

quote:

Originally posted by FreeSafety:
I'll tell you this.

Last night was my first time in my new club seats.

$208 face value each. I asked everybody around me if they were season ticket holders and would be in those seats all year.

None were.

Zero.

And just by appearance, I'd say most of them couldn't afford those seats.

So, I think Artist may have a valid point.

The people at Packers Family Night were people who wanted to be there. I don't think anyone can read anything more into that.

Do the Club seat holders automatically get their seats for Family Night? You were probably looking forward to meeting the neighbors.

$208, I think, means they're indoor clubs?

quote:

Originally posted by FreeSafety:
Just because something is technically unprovable doesn't mean it isn't true.

Fine. I believe that support of Rodgers or Favre in this little debate does not break along socioeconomic lines. Nor do season-ticket holders have any kind of monopoly on wealth, education, or intelligence. I can't prove it, but that's what I'm going to go with.

No problem.

All I am saying is that in my section I witnessed what appeared to be people below an income level that would allow them to spend $12,000+ on Packer tickets. My conversations with many of them added support in that none of them actually held those seats for the entire season.

Many of these people booed Arron Rodgers upon his introduction, before the first snap, in a way that made others of us feel uncomfortable.

I will compare this crowd to those at regular season games to see if there is any difference.

quote:

Do the Club seat holders automatically get their seats for Family Night? You were probably looking forward to meeting the neighbors.

$208, I think, means they're indoor clubs?

Yes, yes and yes.

I'm so glad that some have sunk to the level of stereotyping.

I guess only wealthy, educated, home owning northerners, and anti-Favre supporters can cheer for the Packers. Glad to know.

quote:

Originally posted by FreeSafety:
I will compare this crowd to those at regular season games to see if there is any difference.

Some of the best crowds I have ever seen were Family Night and pre-season games.

Some of the Green package games will have seats filled with zombies and then they'll complain about the Milwaukee people not knowing how to cheer. It's funny how the crowds can be sometime. You could even blame the crowd for the loss to the Giants, they started giving up and expecting to lose and became a non-factor toward the end. Half of my section wouldn't even stand let alone make noise.

You will find the neighbors to be a dynamic thing. Some you'll see all the time, others will always have different faces. I don't think none of them will be the "have been here forever" variety because those seats are new and the dynamics are different.

quote:

Originally posted by Madtown Bomber:
I'm so glad that some have sunk to the level of stereotyping.

I guess only wealthy, educated, home owning northerners, and anti-Favre supporters can cheer for the Packers. Glad to know.

I am not talking about people that cheer for the Packers.

I am talking about the people that booed Rodgers before the first snap and embarrassed me and my family.

quote:

Don't fool yourselves guys & gals, it doesn't matter if AR is the better QB...Favre will start. The only way AR starts is if Favre is traded, and I hope that happens soon.

-Agreed.
Fair Competition? Right.
Barring injury, If Favre is suited up on Gameday 1, he'll start ... bank on it. I doubt TT/MM will have any part in stopping the streak.

quote:

Originally posted by FreeSafety:
I am not talking about people that cheer for the Packers.

I am talking about the people that booed Rodgers before the first snap and embarrassed me and my family.

You're talking about them specifically, but you're theorizing (or rather, you're saying Artist might have a valid point, I guess) that those halfwits are representative of a far larger group of people. I will certainly agree that anyone who booed Rodgers last night before the first snap is a fool. I just don't like the theory that they should be lumped in with a larger group of Favre fans. I don't consider the classless, name-calling idiots around this place as representative of all fans who don't like Favre and are rooting for Rodgers, because that would be ridiculous. Sometimes idiots are just representative of themselves.

Maybe I shouldn't have aliigned myself with the Artist.

I guess what I am saying is that perhapse the $8 ticket price was responsible for a higher percentage of fans of the kind that would be more likely to boo AR on his introduction.

I wish I could relive the event with a crowd that paid normal ticket prices to see if the same booing would occur.

Maybe Favre will take the field next Monday night to an equal level of booing, and I will be equally embarrassed.

quote:

Originally posted by FreeSafety:
Maybe I shouldn't have aliigned myself with the Artist.

.

LOL, you'll never make that mistake again.

Kidding, Artist.

I must admit I have LOL more than once recently at the Artist's wit.

Speaking for myself I went to the first family fun night simply because it was the only way I could watch a game at Lambeau. And Chances are I'd go again to family fun night before I would actually attend a game simply because of the cost involved.

quote:

Originally posted by TimthePackerFan:
Speaking for myself I went to the first family fun night simply because it was the only way I could watch a game at Lambeau. And Chances are I'd go again to family fun night before I would actually attend a game simply because of the cost involved.

Send us a picture of your trailer home.

quote:

Originally posted by TimthePackerFan:
Speaking for myself I went to the first family fun night simply because it was the only way I could watch a game at Lambeau. And Chances are I'd go again to family fun night before I would actually attend a game simply because of the cost involved.

How much money do you make? I just want to make sure you don't boo our starting QB.