One of the things I am so dissapointed by my expectations were so low this season. The only thing I was looking for was to see some level of improvement throughout the season. This team has gone from bad to worse. IMHO there is very little doubt we have the worst defense in the league. Injuries are also no excuse. I believe we have the exact same starters (on defense) that we had on opening day!

I know we have gone through 3 dc's over 3 years but can anyone get excited about this team if Sanders comes back as DC? The jury may still be out regarding Mike McCarthy can be a head coach in this league, but I think Sanders has proven he is not a DC!

There was a 3rd down play in the 4th qtr. Favre fired straight over the middle to Driver who was not able to pull down the ball after being bumped by the DB. Simms made some remarks about pass interference (which could have been called). But on replay when they showed the play from the backside EZ you could see Ruvell Martin running his route straight up the field. He was running his route somewhat slow and just as knew the pass would not be to him. No wonder why Favre has to throw to Driver all the time...

I didn't see the game today but man it must have been ugly down 31-0. To think people were talking about playoffs when they beat the Vikings. The NFC is bad but it's not THAT bad.

They're just not very good and if they don't play mistake free football they're going to get crushed. Since that Viking game they've been outscored 107-34.

quote:

Originally posted by Pakrz:

quote:

Originally posted by Ubetcha:
This is the one thing that bothers me about this team right now. I didn't expect them to really challenge in the division this year considering all the totally new offense and all. But we are at that point in the season where we should start seeing glimmers of good things to come for next season. Instead, the wheels are really starting to come off. This points to coaching. I really want to see McCarthy succeed, but I get the feeling his learning curve is really steep. Fortunately I couldn't see the game today but watching the score come in by quarter was frightening. Even the Lions gave the Pats a good contest today. We were never in that game.

I beg to differ. We were in that game during the coin toss. After that, it went down hill.

That was great and well needed.

As I have said countless times. Attempting to coach a team that is primarily rookies is a daunting task for any HC. Asking a newbie HC to do that is really stacking the deck against him in terms of any substained forward progress.

While MM and his coaching staff have many glaring issues, I lay a chuck of the dismal performance of the Packers on TTs desk.

I understand the rebuilding aspect but you don't throw the baby out with the dishwater. His reluctance to go after decent veterans before the season even gets started is really hurting the team IMHO. And its not like last season when he had little cap money to use.

I love the Pack and always will. Its sad seeing them be turned into the laughing stock that they have become.

As ugly as the 70's were none of those teams had 2 shut out games at Lambeau in one season. TT gets that honor. Sure hope the team doesn't have anymore before the season is done.

SPee, are you ever going to stop taking shots at TT? Is it even possible for you?

The Packers are now hitting their stride and the future is looking really bright in Green Bay


, oops


FILU

quote:

Originally posted by squirrelpee:

quote:

Originally posted by Pakrz:

quote:

Originally posted by Ubetcha:
This is the one thing that bothers me about this team right now. I didn't expect them to really challenge in the division this year considering all the totally new offense and all. But we are at that point in the season where we should start seeing glimmers of good things to come for next season. Instead, the wheels are really starting to come off. This points to coaching. I really want to see McCarthy succeed, but I get the feeling his learning curve is really steep. Fortunately I couldn't see the game today but watching the score come in by quarter was frightening. Even the Lions gave the Pats a good contest today. We were never in that game.

I beg to differ. We were in that game during the coin toss. After that, it went down hill.

That was great and well needed.

As I have said countless times. Attempting to coach a team that is primarily rookies is a daunting task for any HC. Asking a newbie HC to do that is really stacking the deck against him in terms of any substained forward progress.

While MM and his coaching staff have many glaring issues, I lay a chuck of the dismal performance of the Packers on TTs desk.

I understand the rebuilding aspect but you don't throw the baby out with the dishwater. His reluctance to go after decent veterans before the season even gets started is really hurting the team IMHO. And its not like last season when he had little cap money to use.

I love the Pack and always will. Its sad seeing them be turned into the laughing stock that they have become.

As ugly as the 70's were none of those teams had 2 shut out games at Lambeau in one season. TT gets that honor. Sure hope the team doesn't have anymore before the season is done.

You have to lay off Thompson. The talent is not that bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Orlando Wolf:

You have to lay off Thompson. The talent is not that bad.

I agree...there's nothing wrong with our talent getting beat all over the field today

the future is bright in Green Bay


FILU

Your needle is stuck, Pee....

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Cecil:
SPee, are you ever going to stop taking shots at TT? Is it even possible for you?

No kidding, I agree. Enough...we get it.

Perhaps when TT's master plan comes to fruition Spee will jump aboard(or perhaps her head will explode).

It is really difficult for fans to grasp the one step back two steps forward concept.

As long as its not the turn around and sprint backwards then crawl forward plan.

Or the left foot in, left foot out, and shake it all about plan.

That's what it's all about.

quote:

Originally posted by GBP1:
There was a 3rd down play in the 4th qtr. Favre fired straight over the middle to Driver who was not able to pull down the ball after being bumped by the DB. Simms made some remarks about pass interference (which could have been called). But on replay when they showed the play from the backside EZ you could see Ruvell Martin running his route straight up the field. He was running his route somewhat slow and just as knew the pass would not be to him. No wonder why Favre has to throw to Driver all the time...

I think Martin only can run slowly. He was probably running the route at his top speed. The only passes he catches are the deliberately underthrown one.

This brings up a larger point. When was the last time you saw a Packer receiver get great separation from the DB (other than Driver running a slant)?

quote:

Originally posted by MichiganPacker:


I think Martin only can run slowly. He was probably running the route at his top speed. The only passes he catches are the deliberately underthrown one.

LMAO!!!!


FILU

quote:

Originally posted by Orlando Wolf:

quote:

Originally posted by squirrelpee:

While MM and his coaching staff have many glaring issues, I lay a chuck of the dismal performance of the Packers on TTs desk.

I understand the rebuilding aspect but you don't throw the baby out with the dishwater. His reluctance to go after decent veterans before the season even gets started is really hurting the team IMHO. And its not like last season when he had little cap money to use.

I love the Pack and always will. Its sad seeing them be turned into the laughing stock that they have become.

As ugly as the 70's were none of those teams had 2 shut out games at Lambeau in one season. TT gets that honor. Sure hope the team doesn't have anymore before the season is done.

You have to lay off Thompson. The talent is not that bad.

What have we seen to suggest there's all this talent you speak of? There are a bunch of young bodies with some potential, but that's it. Will they develop? Maybe, but SPee's got a valid point.

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:

quote:

Originally posted by Orlando Wolf:

quote:

Originally posted by squirrelpee:

While MM and his coaching staff have many glaring issues, I lay a chuck of the dismal performance of the Packers on TTs desk.

I understand the rebuilding aspect but you don't throw the baby out with the dishwater. His reluctance to go after decent veterans before the season even gets started is really hurting the team IMHO. And its not like last season when he had little cap money to use.

I love the Pack and always will. Its sad seeing them be turned into the laughing stock that they have become.

As ugly as the 70's were none of those teams had 2 shut out games at Lambeau in one season. TT gets that honor. Sure hope the team doesn't have anymore before the season is done.

You have to lay off Thompson. The talent is not that bad.

What have we seen to suggest there's all this talent you speak of? There are a bunch of young bodies with some potential, but that's it. Will they develop? Maybe, but SPee's got a valid point.

You look at upgrades. Well...
Woodson has been, Pickett has been, Hawk has been, Jennings has been.

quote:

Originally posted by GBP1:
There was a 3rd down play in the 4th qtr. Favre fired straight over the middle to Driver who was not able to pull down the ball after being bumped by the DB. Simms made some remarks about pass interference (which could have been called). But on replay when they showed the play from the backside EZ you could see Ruvell Martin running his route straight up the field. He was running his route somewhat slow and just as knew the pass would not be to him. No wonder why Favre has to throw to Driver all the time...

I noticed that, too. However, I don't think Martin ran it slow not thinking he'd get the ball...I just think he had no clue how to run the route. Therein lies the problem...veteran receivers know how to adjust their routes...on viewing the play again, I would think Ruvell would've know to stop his route and cut it in or a comebacker....he knew he wasnt' going to get the ball because he was covered by the CB with the safety coming over. Martin should've adjusted the route.

but yes, he was realllllllll sllllloooooowwwww on that route

good observation GBP1.

I think favre makes up his mind who he's throwing to at the line of scrimage. No matter what, he is going to that guy.

quote:

Originally posted by Orlando Wolf:
You look at upgrades. Well...
Woodson has been, Pickett has been, Hawk has been, Jennings has been.

But, on Thompson's watch:
1. Jennings has not become an upgrade over Walker.
2. Pickett is no better than a healthy Grady, but I'll give it an upgrade due to age etc. even though Pickett is not as disruptive.
3. Woodson is an upgrade.
4. Hawk appears to be an upgrade.
5. Poppinga is not, although with Diggs' health maybe a wash.
6. College is a downgrade so far from Wahle, and it's not close. Yet.
7. Spitz is a downgrade from Rivera. Again, not close yet, but health/age evens this out some.
8. Wells is a downgrade, but with Flanny's health, let's call it a wash.
9. Miree is a wash as Hendo is a product of body and age.
10. Manuel is a downgrade from Roman. At least Roman was a good play caller/coordinator back there.
11. Collins is a downgrade from dunce-boy Sharper, but we'll see if he shakes off the sophmore slump or goes Marques Anderson.
12. Morency and Davenport are a wash.
13. Herron is a downgrade as a third-down back from Fisher.
14. Ryan is a downgrade from Sander. Sander was at least mediocre. Ryan sucks.
15. Rayner is a downgrade from Longwell.
16. Martin and Francies are a downgrade from Ferguson and Chatman.
17. Rodgers and Nall are a wash at this point, but I sure would like to think Rodgers is an upgrade.

Favre, Green, Barnett, Harris, Davis, the ends, most of the DTackle rotation, the TEs, Clifton, Tauscher and Driver are still in place. While there is a rebuild going on, strictly speaking, we haven't seen much in the way of upgrades. The downgrades outnumber them about 2-1. Will this remain the case? We don't know yet, I'd like to hope not, but again, she has a point thus far. A very valid point.

Nows the time to start implementing the things they want to run next year, try running a screen and getting Green outside for once, make a guard pull, blitz until they know how to blitz properly.

btw - Nice to see Hodge's coverage ability was very similar to Barnetts.

Wow Herschel, that analysis is really not making me feel any better about today's game--and the sad thing is that I agree with your points.

The only thing is that with rookies you never know what you have-- Time and experience may lead them to be good solid players. I remember Wolf saying that he prefered to go with younger, more hungry players... Of course, with rookies, you need good coaching, and I'm afraid Sander's coaching unit is also a downgrade from Bate's units last year!

BTW, did anyone see Brett on the play where Bubba dropped the passin the 3rd quarter?? Brett said: "F*** Bubba!" and did not throw another pass his way again. I truly believe Bubba is also a downgrade over the Bubba from the past!

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:

quote:

Originally posted by Orlando Wolf:
You look at upgrades. Well...
Woodson has been, Pickett has been, Hawk has been, Jennings has been.

But, on Thompson's watch:
1. Jennings has not become an upgrade over Walker.
2. Pickett is no better than a healthy Grady, but I'll give it an upgrade due to age etc. even though Pickett is not as disruptive.
3. Woodson is an upgrade.
4. Hawk appears to be an upgrade.
5. Poppinga is not, although with Diggs' health maybe a wash.
6. College is a downgrade so far from Wahle, and it's not close. Yet.
7. Spitz is a downgrade from Rivera. Again, not close yet, but health/age evens this out some.
8. Wells is a downgrade, but with Flanny's health, let's call it a wash.
9. Miree is a wash as Hendo is a product of body and age.
10. Manuel is a downgrade from Roman. At least Roman was a good play caller/coordinator back there.
11. Collins is a downgrade from dunce-boy Sharper, but we'll see if he shakes off the sophmore slump or goes Marques Anderson.
12. Morency and Davenport are a wash.
13. Herron is a downgrade as a third-down back from Fisher.
14. Ryan is a downgrade from Sander. Sander was at least mediocre. Ryan sucks.
15. Rayner is a downgrade from Longwell.
16. Martin and Francies are a downgrade from Ferguson and Chatman.
17. Rodgers and Nall are a wash at this point, but I sure would like to think Rodgers is an upgrade.

Favre, Green, Barnett, Harris, Davis, the ends, most of the DTackle rotation, the TEs, Clifton, Tauscher and Driver are still in place. While there is a rebuild going on, strictly speaking, we haven't seen much in the way of upgrades. The downgrades outnumber them about 2-1. Will this remain the case? We don't know yet, I'd like to hope not, but again, she has a point thus far. A very valid point.

Wahle and Rivera weren't even with the team last year. If you're going to compare to guys who weren't on last years team I guess Barnette is a downgrade from Nitsche. Right now I'd say Colledge is better at this point in his career than Wahle was. Wahle was in danger of being run off the team after the first couple years.
Ryan is a downgrade from Sander. That's just laughable.
Wells is a downgrade to last years Flanagan (oh wait, a wash)? What is that?
I thought Hawk was playing Diggs LB position. I don't even remember who the other outside linebacker was last year. (was it Rob Thomas, or Ben Thomas, or Rob Petry, or Ben and Jerry?)
Collins is a Free Safety and Sharper is a Strong Safety but regardless, I recall Sharper making some boneheaded moves early in his career. Personally, I think he created the Terrel Owens monster.
Way too early to judge on this group. They aren't all going to be All Pro's but it's the first I've felt pretty good about the Packer's "young talent" in a while.

quote:

Originally posted by packfanincolorado:
...BTW, did anyone see Brett on the play where Bubba dropped the passin the 3rd quarter?? Brett said: "F*** Bubba!" and did not throw another pass his way again. I truly believe Bubba is also a downgrade over the Bubba from the past!

See my post earlier in this thread.

I don't think the Packers are lacking in talent, I just think they are lacking in coaching. For the third week in a row, McCarthy has not had the team ready to play. The only thing that kept the Seahawks game from being a blowout from the start was the weather and some fortunate turnovers, otherwise the Packers have not been in a game since they beat the Vikings.

It is very easy to blame problems on "rookies", however at this point in the year all of the rookies have game experience. I see a lot of good individual performances, but this group does not play as a cohesive unit. The running game was something that seemed to be working, but once again McCarthy abandoned it, even before it was a blowout. Gone are the intermediate pass routes and in place are the long pass plays.

The Packers at one point this season had a decent run defense, but that has gone to the wayside. The linebackers are terrible at pass defense, as are the safeties.

The cold weather has affected Rayner. The kickoff coverage is terrible as no one stays in their lanes. Special teams is a laughingstock.

People talked all year about how McCarthy was going to reign in Favre, but Favre's problems of slinging it where it shouldn't be are as evident as ever. Not all of it is Favre's fault, as he is just running the offensive game plan given to him.

If McCarthy can go back to what was working earlier this year, perhaps the final four games could be salvaged into a couple of wins. The Packers need to get back to the run and a ball-control passing attack. That will allow the defense to catch its breath which may improve the defensive performance, or if nothing else limit the amount the defense can be exploited.