quote:

Originally posted by Max:
1. Half a game of NFL action that counts. No NFL starts. Virtual rookie.
2. I'm not denying they occurred. I am denying that (as CoP suggests) it was virtually a 50-50 thing, or that these plays will disappear under Rodgers. (Or any NFL quarterback.) Throw for 61,000 yards over 17 years and hell yeah, there are going to be a lot of bad throws. You talk as if that was most of what we got.
3. I'm going to just let another QB actually start a game for us before I say he'll be better than Favre, that's all.

I was amazed in my research today to see John Elway and Dan Marino's completion percentage...both under 60%. Elway was in the 56's! That is not good. Favre was over 61% but he played in the WCO and the others did not.

To me, a great measure is TD's vs. INT's. Young, Montana, Brady and Manning have very good TD to INT ratios. Elway, Favre and Marino do not.

I think Rodgers can really improve on the TD vs. INT numbers. He will not be as "sexy" as Brett while getting it done but I don't care. I think when a play needs to be made Aaron Rodgers will do smarter things with the pigskin...I just hope that means better results.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

To you it's indignant...to me it's true. Sal Palantonio wrote a book about Favre. He was torched here because of it. I would say he has, or had, a fair amount of credibility but he was mercilessly blasted because his view clashed with the views of Packers fans. He knew it was coming out of Wisconsin. Was there a backlash against his statements anywhere else but from Packer fans? No.

How does Sal take his coffee?

So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:
So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

No. If I was trying to do that I would've never posted Marino or Elway's completion percentage. I doubt anyone was conjuring that quickly to mind.

What have I been saying over and over about Favre? He made horrific mistakes at critical times. The mistakes I'm speaking of are interceptions. It was interesting to see which QB's had the best TD/INT ratio. Favre wasn't even close in that category. Did he end up setting the all time INT record? I've honestly forgotten what happened there.

Smart QB's don't throw a lot of picks. Or..is that a bad assumption? If Brady started chucking into triple coverage and losing big games due to bad throws would you change your current opinion of him?

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by Coach:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

How is saying "Yip Cabbage" offensive? I thought I was on your bad side already. It's pretty hard for you to say that not knowing what I know about football. I guess my posts here relegate me to idiot status because I don't, well, you already know.

If she's credible to you and others how would I know? And...better yet...why would I care? Seriously? Someone with credibility can be wrong.

That's rather indignant.

To you it's indignant...to me it's true. Sal Palantonio wrote a book about Favre. He was torched here because of it. I would say he has, or had, a fair amount of credibility but he was mercilessly blasted because his view clashed with the views of Packers fans. He knew it was coming out of Wisconsin. Was there a backlash against his statements anywhere else but from Packer fans? No.

It is indignant. Of course that's the "gun slinger" mentality, right CoP??

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

Smart QB's don't throw a lot of picks. Or..is that a bad assumption? If Brady started chucking into triple coverage and losing big games due to bad throws would you change your current opinion of him?

Now Favre (by implication) wasn't "smart" (again) because he threw more than a fair share of picks?



Just how many rhetorical backflips are you going to try to squeeze into this thread?

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:
So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

No. If I was trying to do that I would've never posted Marino or Elway's completion percentage. I doubt anyone was conjuring that quickly to mind.

What have I been saying over and over about Favre? He made horrific mistakes at critical times. The mistakes I'm speaking of are interceptions. It was interesting to see which QB's had the best TD/INT ratio. Favre wasn't even close in that category. Did he end up setting the all time INT record? I've honestly forgotten what happened there.

Smart QB's don't throw a lot of picks. Or..is that a bad assumption? If Brady started chucking into triple coverage and losing big games due to bad throws would you change your current opinion of him?

You're making an assumption that smart people don't take risks and I would contend that such an assumption is absurd.

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:
So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

No. If I was trying to do that I would've never posted Marino or Elway's completion percentage. I doubt anyone was conjuring that quickly to mind.

What have I been saying over and over about Favre? He made horrific mistakes at critical times. The mistakes I'm speaking of are interceptions. It was interesting to see which QB's had the best TD/INT ratio. Favre wasn't even close in that category. Did he end up setting the all time INT record? I've honestly forgotten what happened there.

Smart QB's don't throw a lot of picks. Or..is that a bad assumption? If Brady started chucking into triple coverage and losing big games due to bad throws would you change your current opinion of him?

You're making an assumption that smart people don't take risks and I would contend that such an assumption is absurd.

Absurd? It depends on the type of risk, correct? Russian Roulette is not a game for the wise is it?

Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:
So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

You're damn right you did. 100% correct, Ms. P.

quote:

Originally posted by CJS:

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:
So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

You're damn right you did. 100% correct, Ms. P.

It must be nice to have fans.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

"...risk must be taken because the greatest hazard in life is to risk nothing.”

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by CJS:

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:
So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

You're damn right you did. 100% correct, Ms. P.

It must be nice to have fans.

"WHHAAAAAAHH...."

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

Educated risks, while not always wise, can produce the most spectacular and unexpected outcomes. How many of the world's greatest achievements were reached without the well-educated taking calculated risks?

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

Educated risks, while not always wise, can produce the most spectacular and unexpected outcomes. How many of the world's greatest achievements were reached without the well-educated taking calculated risks?

I'll keep this thread in mind next time I see a Packers QB, no matter who he is, make some incredibly stupid risk taking interception. I'll be sure to remind you of this quote comparing science and life to NFL football. Wow.

BTW, I love how you snuck in the word "calculated" and "educated" prior to risk. BF never used education or calculated anything he just reacted and did stupid things. Sometimes they worked and sometimes they didn't...worked less and less as time went on.

Are you going to sit there and type with a straight face that Favre took calculated risks and therefore should be excused from criticism for what I, and a few others, think were idiotic risks?

I'll also ask about the backlash vs. Sal Palantonio... Was there one outside of Favre and Packer fans? Was there? No. It was right on the money.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

Educated risks, while not always wise, can produce the most spectacular and unexpected outcomes. How many of the world's greatest achievements were reached without the well-educated taking calculated risks?

I'll keep this thread in mind next time I see a Packers QB, no matter who he is, make some incredibly stupid risk taking interception. I'll be sure to remind you of this quote comparing science and life to NFL football. Wow.

I believe you're the only one talking about "incredibly stupid risk taking interceptions". I certainly never mentioned them. So you go ahead and do that, sweetie.



PS - quit editing you posts after people have already responded.

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

Educated risks, while not always wise, can produce the most spectacular and unexpected outcomes. How many of the world's greatest achievements were reached without the well-educated taking calculated risks?

I'll keep this thread in mind next time I see a Packers QB, no matter who he is, make some incredibly stupid risk taking interception. I'll be sure to remind you of this quote comparing science and life to NFL football. Wow.

I believe you're the only one talking about "incredibly stupid risk taking interceptions". I certainly never mentioned them. So you go ahead and do that, sweetie.

So...what were you referring to, hun. I see you prefer to ask questions instead of answering them. That is fine. I edit them BEFORE people respond. I guess they could be in the process of responding while I edit...Don't know. Please, don't allege I'm changing posts after they've been responded to...I don't do that.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

Educated risks, while not always wise, can produce the most spectacular and unexpected outcomes. How many of the world's greatest achievements were reached without the well-educated taking calculated risks?

I'll keep this thread in mind next time I see a Packers QB, no matter who he is, make some incredibly stupid risk taking interception. I'll be sure to remind you of this quote comparing science and life to NFL football. Wow.


I'll also ask about the backlash vs. Sal Palantonio... Was there one outside of Favre and Packer fans? Was there? No. It was right on the money.

Stage four (CoP is watching).

I believe the main reason there wasn't a backlash against Palantonio because nobody really cared what he thought.

Sounds like somebody I've crossed paths with on the "innernet" the last two offseasons.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

Educated risks, while not always wise, can produce the most spectacular and unexpected outcomes. How many of the world's greatest achievements were reached without the well-educated taking calculated risks?

I'll keep this thread in mind next time I see a Packers QB, no matter who he is, make some incredibly stupid risk taking interception. I'll be sure to remind you of this quote comparing science and life to NFL football. Wow.


I'll also ask about the backlash vs. Sal Palantonio... Was there one outside of Favre and Packer fans? Was there? No. It was right on the money.

Stage four (CoP is watching).

I believe the main reason there wasn't a backlash against Palantonio because nobody really cared what he thought.

Sounds like somebody I've crossed paths with on the "innernet" the last two offseasons.

No. Untrue. Palantonio's words would've have been roundly criticized on the national level had they been inflammatory or inaccurate. Sadly, his words were neither. He made excellent points that only Packer fans/Favre fans took issue with. I know what he went through because it happens right here.

Here are the answers...



1) Favre's wonderlic score was in the mid twenties which is plenty smart enough to play QB in a WCO which he readily proved in his stellar 17 year career.

2) Aaron Rodgers is more intelligent than Brett Favre if Wonderlic scores are to be believed.

3) Aaron Rodgers has yet to prove if his intelligence will carry over to the NFL arena. (Hopefully it does)

4) Brett Favre could be perfectly exasperating at times and we all know and admit that. The careless interceptions we terrible.

5) Favre was a great football player and QB if he is judged by the entirety of his career.

6) We'll likely never see another one like him in our lifetime.

Anything else?

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:
Here are the answers...



1) Favre's wonderlic score was in the mid twenties which is plenty smart enough to play QB in a WCO which he readily proved in his stellar 17 year career.

2) Aaron Rodgers is more intelligent than Brett Favre if Wonderlic scores are to be believed.

3) Aaron Rodgers has yet to prove if his intelligence will carry over to the NFL arena. (Hopefully it does)

4) Brett Favre could be perfectly exasperating at times and we all know and admit that. The careless interceptions we terrible.

5) Favre was a great football player and QB if he is judged by the entirety of his career.

6) We'll likely never see another one like him in our lifetime.

Anything else?

Great work. I agree. What about Sal Palantonio and the lack of a national backlash. Would love your thoughts on the excerpts of his book that made it into the national media.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
No. Untrue. Palantonio's words would've have been roundly criticized on the national level had they been inflammatory or inaccurate. Sadly, his words were neither. He made excellent points that only Packer fans/Favre fans took issue with. I know what he went through because it happens right here.

Why, because you say so?



Nobody cared (including Favre).

Dazzle us:

Name one other chapter in that book without looking it up that criticized another individual (or team) and then we can discuss the lack of a "backlash" for that too.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:
Here are the answers...



1) Favre's wonderlic score was in the mid twenties which is plenty smart enough to play QB in a WCO which he readily proved in his stellar 17 year career.

2) Aaron Rodgers is more intelligent than Brett Favre if Wonderlic scores are to be believed.

3) Aaron Rodgers has yet to prove if his intelligence will carry over to the NFL arena. (Hopefully it does)

4) Brett Favre could be perfectly exasperating at times and we all know and admit that. The careless interceptions we terrible.

5) Favre was a great football player and QB if he is judged by the entirety of his career.

6) We'll likely never see another one like him in our lifetime.

Anything else?

Great work. I agree. What about Sal Palantonio and the lack of a national backlash. Would love your thoughts on the excerpts of his book that made it into the national media.

You're assuming that people nationwide actually read and placed any credibilty to Sal's words in the first place. No readership and/or no credibilty equals no national backlash.

I could be wrong, but I thought it was getting unlikely for Favre to NOT make a potential game-breaking mistake for three games in a row, thereby making a SB unattainable.

Man, I'll still never forget the pass he threw in the 4th and 26 Eagles game. No way Starr EVER does that.

Here's a small bit of tempering. Montana threw a pass right into a Bengal in the SB on the game-winning drive. Most likely, if the guy holds onto the ball, Montana did his share to LOSE the game.

But, I think Favre had a bit of a penchant for this type of thing and so three wins in a row against playoff caliber teams was seeming less and less likely.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
No. Untrue. Palantonio's words would've have been roundly criticized on the national level had they been inflammatory or inaccurate. Sadly, his words were neither. He made excellent points that only Packer fans/Favre fans took issue with. I know what he went through because it happens right here.

Why, because you say so?



Nobody cared (including Favre).

Dazzle us:

Name one other chapter in that book without looking it up that criticized another individual (or team) and then we can discuss the lack of a "backlash" for that too.

First, let me comment without editing my previous post on Wonderlic scores...just want to clarify Brett didn't have a Wonderlic score in the MID 20's... He scored a 22...Rodgers a 35. Brian Brohm scored a 32.

Coach...When you name a bigger issue than Favre at the end of his career we'll talk. That was the excerpt floated on ESPN TV. It wasn't about Randy Moss being overrated...it was about Favre. You tell me ONE other chapter that was quoted and we'll start there.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

You tell me ONE other chapter that was quoted and we'll start there.

Exactly.