quote:

Originally posted by Brak:
Uh, guys, I believe Lee is an Asian name? Duh.

Racist aliens. I hate them.

Where I think Favre will be missed most is the pre-snap stuff. Line-calls, cadence, having run/pass options, knowing defenses, recognizing blitzes, that sort of stuff. I worry about the OL a bit, they'll have to better under Rodgers. because I think he's going to miss some of the stuff I listed above and therefore will hold the ball a little longer. It will also take some time for the WR's and Rodgers to get on the same page for hot-reads and some of the improvisation that Favre used to do with Driver might also be out the window for a while.

It will just take some time and Rodgers needs to be allowed to make some mistakes without a rain of "booos" hailing down at Lambeau when he makes a mistake. That will do nothing for his confidence. IMO, Rodgers should pretty much get a free pass this year as he learns the ropes with real bullets flying.

quote:

Originally posted by CJS:
Where I think Favre will be missed most is the pre-snap stuff. Line-calls, cadence, having run/pass options, knowing defenses, recognizing blitzes, that sort of stuff. I worry about the OL a bit, they'll have to better under Rodgers. because I think he's going to miss some of the stuff I listed above and therefore will hold the ball a little longer. It will also take some time for the WR's and Rodgers to get on the same page for hot-reads and some of the improvisation that Favre used to do with Driver might also be out the window for a while.

It will just take some time and Rodgers needs to be allowed to make some mistakes without a rain of "booos" hailing down at Lambeau when he makes a mistake. That will do nothing for his confidence. IMO, Rodgers should pretty much get a free pass this year as he learns the ropes with real bullets flying.

Rodgers doesn't deserve any honeymoon period, IMO. He was potentially the overall #1 pick in the NFL draft in 2005. He's had the rare opportunity to sit and learn for 3 full seasons from the unorthodox Brett Favre. The kid is smart enough to take the good from Brett and leave the bad. Rodgers has had plenty of reps to develop chemistry with the WR's. Over the last 3 off-seasons Rodgers has gotten more time with the 1's than Brett. Rodgers has been here while Brett has tended to graduation parties and the like.

His scrambling ability should be put on display often this season which causes a ton of injury concern. Where Brett would run around and make a crazy play Rodgers will tuck and run. As long as Aaron can get out of bounds and not take it up the middle he should be fine.

I'm a little concerned about the first few weeks. It is said the offense is always behind the defense early on. We get Minnesota and last years LAST ranked pass defense in the opener. As long as Clifton can handle Jared Allen the way he did vs. KC last season, Rogders should get his career off to a great start.

Unlike Brett, I think AR will take advantage of that wide open real estate that lays in front of him instead of throwing it to a wide receiver in triple coverage for no play. I love Brett, but... that use to drive me crazy.

quote:

Originally posted by Gun4Arm:
Unlike Brett, I think AR will take advantage of that wide open real estate that lays in front of him instead of throwing it to a wide receiver in triple coverage for no play. I love Brett, but... that use to drive me crazy.

I couldn't agree more with that last statement. Rodgers is smarter than what we used to have. It will be nice to see a 3rd and 6 run for a first down instead of turned into a pick 6, or great field position, for the other team.

The question is...Will Rodgers get hurt doing this?

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Rodgers is smarter than what we used to have.

yeah, that is what he meant.

quote:

Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Rodgers is smarter than what we used to have.

yeah, that is what he meant.

Yes... It certainly is. BTW, I do like that video clip.

Who do you think is smarter? I'm not talking experience. You take these two and put them through the exact same things which one would you surmise would learn the most and, in effect, be smarter? Just purely from an overall intelligence standpoint who do you think is brighter?

NFL teams use the Wonderlic as a barometer to measure intelligence especially at the QB position. Rodgers scored higher. He's a bright guy who I think will have no problem playing within himself which is needed in the WCO. I expect less turnovers from our offense with his smarter decision making. Even as a first time starter I expect it to be better than what we've witnessed the last few years.

As pointed out already... he'll run for a first down instead of wildly heaving it into triple coverage. That is a plus right there. He'll also take to coaching much easier than someone who is a legend and has been doing it for a long time. I see all those as pluses for Mr. Rodgers' neighborhood.

James Jones certainly seems fired up about the switch. I love the comment he made about Rodgers knowing the offense better than Brett and throwing a harder ball. Both shocking statements.

Statistically, or whatever you'd label the measure that describes the Wonderlic, Rodgers is smarter. He probably even is more intelligent than Favre, but there's 'intelligent' and 'smart,' and at this point, there's no way to expect Rodgers to be as 'smart' as Favre was after 16 years in GB. I'd think he may even pick up the nuances and improve his 'smartness' faster than Favre did, and I also think MM is going to show he's a blue-chip coach this year, but Rodgers will throw more than his share of boners this season. It's unavoidable, and every first-time starter does.

Instead of the 2-3 years that Favre drove us crazy when he was learning the game, it may be only 1-2 years, but it'll still be a curve he has to overcome, and that can only be done with experience. Of course, this all assumes he'll stay healthy as well. I have hopes for a good, solid season, maybe 20-22 TDs and 9-11 INT's, and I'd call that a damn good first year, especially if GB gets into the playoffs the year after Favre retires.

Using the wonderlick to measure intelligence is like measuring the square feet of a room using your shoe. It will give you a rough estimate, that's it.

Gun4arm was talking about making a choice to run instead of throw, not that BF was dumb. That is just your (AWSOME!!11!) personal agenda speaking.

Favre talked country dumb, but a smart guy like yourself with intimate knowledge of football should know that you can't have a moron running the WCO, at least not at a HOF level.

Trying to determine which QB is 'smarter' is at best subjective, at worst, just another method of demonstrating you silly agenda.

quote:

Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
Using the wonderlick to measure intelligence is like measuring the square feet of a room using your shoe. It will give you a rough estimate, that's it.

Gun4arm was talking about making a choice to run instead of throw, not that BF was dumb. That is just your (AWSOME!!11!) personal agenda speaking.

Favre talked country dumb, but a smart guy like yourself with intimate knowledge of football should know that you can't have a moron running the WCO, at least not at a HOF level.

Trying to determine which QB is 'smarter' is at best subjective, at worst, just another method of demonstrating you silly agenda.

It has nothing to do with an agenda. If you want to call my honest assessment of the situation an "agenda" then I'm fine with it. Rodgers is a bright guy. Is that debatable? Was Favre ever thought of in that regard? No.

James Jones said Rodgers knew the WCO offense better than Favre. There we have an actual player backing up my "agenda". It is odd that a man who ran the offense for 17 years vs. a guy who only practiced for 3 years has a better understanding. It has to do with intelligence and preparation. Obviously, Rodgers is a studier. Favre said he really hit the tapes last year to play at a high level which is something he'd never done before. Brett was magnificently naturally gifted and relied on that. Rodgers is far less talented but a brighter individual thus I expect less mistakes and far less exciting plays. I'll take a consistent QB vs. what we used to have. I hated the crazy ints more than I liked the "wow" plays.

If Rodgers truly understands this offense the way we've heard, I don't expect him to make "rookie" mistakes. He possesses a maturity already just in apparently mastering the inner workings of the WCO. That is a humongous plus. To know what you're doing when you hit the field will only pay dividends.

Personally, I've never heard anyone question Favre's intelligence or suggest he wasn't bright. Yeah, he was generally described as an aw shucks Southern boy, but nobody ever suggested he wasn't smart enough to pick up the WCO. Until now, anyway. This idea that he's heading to the Hall of Fame essentially on natural ability alone is ludicrous. But hey, that IS your agenda, so fine.

What if James Jones doesn't know the WCO, but he thinks he does, and so he thinks Rodgers does too, but he really doesn't?

Don'tcha know, Favre froze out James Jones most of the season while he was forcing throws in to Koren Robinson. Obviously Jones has a huge chip on his shoulder toward Favre.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghost of Lambeau:
The last guy to come into a good situatuion, considering the guys around him, was Steve Young. Who did well and went to at least one SB.

Steve Young is an intriguing comparison. As a Hall of Famer, he is probably the best QB ever to follow another Hall of Fame QB. An interesting thing about Young, however, is that it wasn't until his seventh year in the NFL that he finally started a game (although he did start a couple of seasons in the USFL). You could say Steve Young had twice as long to be groomed as Rodgers did. Young also got more playing experience as Montana was injured numerous times.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Rodgers is smarter than what we used to have.

What an assanine statement.

quote:

Originally posted by Point Brewmaster:
[ An interesting thing about Young, however, is that it wasn't until his seventh year in the NFL that he finally started a game (although he did start a couple of seasons in the USFL). You could say Steve Young had twice as long to be groomed as Rodgers did. Young also got more playing experience as Montana was injured numerous times.

Pretty sure Young started most of his first couple years in the NFL....with the Bucs.

As for the topic, I think most folks are confident in Rodgers ability and intelligence. But if you think he will be as saavy with his pre-snap reads for coverrage and protection as a seasoned vet, you are dreaming. I won't be surprised to see our offensive production drop just a bit and sacks go up....until he settles in. High Wonderlic or not !!

quote:

Originally posted by Packdog:
Pretty sure Young started most of his first couple years in the NFL....with the Bucs.

I was going off his stats from NFL.com. Maybe their starting stats don't go back that far.

quote:

Originally posted by Max:
Personally, I've never heard anyone question Favre's intelligence or suggest he wasn't bright. Yeah, he was generally described as an aw shucks Southern boy, but nobody ever suggested he wasn't smart enough to pick up the WCO. Until now, anyway. This idea that he's heading to the Hall of Fame essentially on natural ability alone is ludicrous. But hey, that IS your agenda, so fine.

I never said Brett wasn't smart enough to pick up the offense. I said Rodgers is smarter and I doubt anyone who is honest would debate that. Will that mean "better" I don't know.

Obviously, Favre's experience was incredibly helpful for all the reasons others with his agenda on their minds have stated.

I will never say Favre was stupid, or not bright. He was never praised for his intelligence...ever. He is going to the Hall based on his ungodly natural ability. You think he's going because he was mechanically sound. It was said many times that you would not pull out a tape of Brett Favre when trying to show a young QB how to play the game. Brett had his own street ball style that somehow meshed with the WCO. I think he would've failed in any other offense. He certainly isn't going into the Hall as a guy who came to every OTA and training camp because he cared that much about learning and improving. As far as I'm concerned, he's in Allen Iverson's league. Practice? We're talking about practice? He is going on his natural tools.

Saying Brett forced balls to Koren Robinson leaves me speechless. How many times did Brett throw to him? I probably could count that on both my hands.

So, now James Jones has an anti-Favre bent? I'm amazed by such statements.

We shall see how much of our success was from the QB position last season. Undoubtedly, Brett had one of his very best seasons, well, regular seasons anyway. I'm curious to see how much drop off, if any, we see with Rodgers.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
So, now James Jones has an anti-Favre bent? I'm amazed by such statements.

I'm amazed that you thought he was serious.

The Koren Robinson/James Jones stuff was a joke on my part, in reference to a few comments posted here a while back from people who believe that in fact Jones' numbers declined later in the season because Favre was freezing him out at Robinson's expense.

Favre's playoff game against Seattle was top-notch. The Giants game obviously was not.

You said, "Rodgers is a bright guy. Was Favre ever thought of in that regard? No." The dots aren't that tough or unreasonable to connect.

My opinion, and it's just that, is that your essential belief is that any good Favre ever did was a result of his natural talent. I think the implication is pretty obvious. Actually, your comment "he is going on his natural tools," is fairly straightforward. BTW, I never said the guy was mechanically sound, but if making stuff up helps your argument, fine. But scores of NFL players have incredible natural talent. A select few make it to the Hall of Fame. Your view, stated or implied, is misguided. In my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Max:
The Koren Robinson/James Jones stuff was a joke on my part, in reference to a few comments posted here a while back from people who believe that in fact Jones' numbers declined later in the season because Favre was freezing him out at Robinson's expense.

Favre's playoff game against Seattle was top-notch. The Giants game obviously was not.

You said, "Rodgers is a bright guy. Was Favre ever thought of in that regard? No." The dots aren't that tough or unreasonable to connect.

My opinion, and it's just that, is that your essential belief is that any good Favre ever did was a result of his natural talent. I think the implication is pretty obvious. Actually, your comment "he is going on his natural tools," is fairly straightforward. BTW, I never said the guy was mechanically sound, but if making stuff up helps your argument, fine. But scores of NFL players have incredible natural talent. A select few make it to the Hall of Fame. Your view, stated or implied, is misguided. In my opinion.

Nail meet hammer.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

Was Favre ever thought of in that regard? No.

I can name a ton of QBs who had a boatload of natural talent but ended up highly ineffective in the NFL. Sounds to me like intelligence might actually be the wild card for success?

Brak: I have it on good authority that Jones knew that Brett thought Jennings was ignorant of the fact that Driver wanted to discern what kind of pizza Rodgers was going to order for his house parties once Brett was dumped by TT. I sense a conspiracy - Brett/Pizza Hut vs TT/Rodgers! Oh the humanity!

How soon until you say that we are all dumb and agree to keep watch from a distance?

quote:

Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
How soon until you say that we are all dumb and agree to keep watch from a distance?

Yep, that worked so well last year.


I'm still waiting for my promised comeuppance, but at least the coffee has been arriving in a timely fashion.