quote:

Originally posted by Boris:

quote:

Originally posted by Erik T. Redman:
who's getting whipped into a lather?

optimistic about improvements and player development? Hell yes. Doesn't mean I expect a Super Bowl or anything.

Geez.....

We understand you are on more of an even keel than most Viking fans. CoP is referring to most Viking fans not you specifically.

That is correct...there are some very bright Viking fans. The majority are not so.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
I lived in, or around, the area for most of my life and many of my friends were Viking fans.

quote:

What is even funnier to me is I will bet over 95% of Viking fans didn't even know who Jared Allen was.

Sounds reasonable. The debates we've had here in the past regarding Texans, everyone had them figured out without ever actually knowing any.

If someone said they had (insert ethnic group) people figured out they'd be made a laughingstock and then banned.

CoP, cut your losses and bail out of this one.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
How could you ever prove such a thing? This is my honest opinion.

You didn't say "my honest opinion". You said "I'll bet". So let's bet.

Unless you're either a chicken***t, a gasbag, or both, I mean. If the general perception that you're mostly full of crap and just come here to vent because no other board will put up with you is wrong, feel free to prove that.

$100 says you don't have the stones to back up your big talk. I'll donate it to the charity of your choice and post a copy of the receipt. I'll even make it in your name, so you can have the deduction.

quote:

Originally posted by Tooner:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
I lived in, or around, the area for most of my life and many of my friends were Viking fans.

quote:

What is even funnier to me is I will bet over 95% of Viking fans didn't even know who Jared Allen was.

Sounds reasonable. The debates we've had here in the past regarding Texans, everyone had them figured out without ever actually knowing any.

If someone said they had (insert ethnic group) people figured out they'd be made a laughingstock and then banned.

CoP, cut your losses and bail out of this one.

I guess you misinterpret my use of the English language. I guess "rhetorical" means nothing to you. Also, this is the spirit of the word "bet" I was referring to: Informal A view or opinion, especially about something that cannot be known at the present time: My bet is that the rain will hold off. My bet is he didn't do it.

You ask me to "bet" in monetary terms. I'm asking you to tell me how we're going to quantify this should we bet. Explain that to me and I'll consider your offer.

The only boards I've ever been banned from were Viking related.

quote:

Originally posted by Tooner:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
I lived in, or around, the area for most of my life and many of my friends were Viking fans.

quote:

What is even funnier to me is I will bet over 95% of Viking fans didn't even know who Jared Allen was.

Sounds reasonable. The debates we've had here in the past regarding Texans, everyone had them figured out without ever actually knowing any.

If someone said they had (insert ethnic group) people figured out they'd be made a laughingstock and then banned.

CoP, cut your losses and bail out of this one.

Hey Tooner...I wasn't here for debates on Texans. You may have gotten it right. I wish I would've seen those. Was it "Catts" related?

Texas is a unique place. There is old Texas and new Texas. I'm part of the new Texas as one of many transplants from other regions of the country. Old Texans and New Texans are very different people. One thing I will say about Texans, in general, is I've never seen such state pride before. I've lived in many different places and never felt the people cared about where they were from and what they stood for more than the folks in this state.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
I'm part of the new Texas as one of many transplants from other regions of the country. Old Texans and New Texans are very different people.

If someone is giving you a hard time just tell them you're a first generation Texan and that person is a second generation Yankee. Then duck.

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:
We understand you are on more of an even keel than most Viking fans. CoP is referring to most Viking fans not you specifically.

Most Vikings fans are pretty jaded when it comes to the Vikings. It's humorous to me that fans of other teams repeatedly remind us of how many times we've been let down. Believe me...we know. We lived it. We get it.

That said, we're still fans of our team. So we continue to hope for the best before every season. That doesn't mean we expect a 13 win season...but we still hope things will work out.

Superbowl Homeboy!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Big Purple Guy:

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:
We understand you are on more of an even keel than most Viking fans. CoP is referring to most Viking fans not you specifically.

Most Vikings fans are pretty jaded when it comes to the Vikings. It's humorous to me that fans of other teams repeatedly remind us of how many times we've been let down. Believe me...we know. We lived it. We get it.

That said, we're still fans of our team. So we continue to hope for the best before every season. That doesn't mean we expect a 13 win season...but we still hope things will work out.

Superbowl Homeboy!!!

Now, your attitude is one I respect. I'd just love to see a little reality in Vike fans expectations each off-season. Jared Allen doesn't equal some divine right to the playoffs.

As for Tooner... Man, I would never say anything disparaging to a Texan about them or their heritage. I called a guy a "gun nut" once and he was less than pleased about it. It is nice to see people care so much about where they're from. I never got that sense in Minnesota or Wisconsin. I prefer living in Wisconsin or Minnesota to down here, but love the warmth and the state pride.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
I would never say anything disparaging to a Texan about them or their heritage.

Naw, it's just some people need to take what they give out, y' know?

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Jared Allen doesn't equal some divine right to the playoffs.

No it doesn't. But I don't think it's outrageous to be optimistic that a team could improve enough from an 8-8 season to make the playoffs. In all likelihood, we're only talking about 2 more wins. It's unlikely that all the moves made will work out and improve the team, but it's also unlikely that all the moves made will fail. And there are young players that could improve. Obviously time will tell, but I don't think that expecting them to make the playoffs is unreasonable.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Purple Guy:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Jared Allen doesn't equal some divine right to the playoffs.

No it doesn't. But I don't think it's outrageous to be optimistic that a team could improve enough from an 8-8 season to make the playoffs. In all likelihood, we're only talking about 2 more wins. It's unlikely that all the moves made will work out and improve the team, but it's also unlikely that all the moves made will fail. And there are young players that could improve. Obviously time will tell, but I don't think that expecting them to make the playoffs is unreasonable.

Hey Boris...I take way more than I ever give out.

I think the Vikes were lucky to be 8-8. As pointed out by one of my favorite Packer posters on another board...How many pro-bowlers does it take to equal an 8-8 season? I think AD is set up for the sophomore jinx. He wasn't the same back after the injury. I know he looked great in the ProBowl but c'mon that's the ProBowl. McKinnie is a lock to be suspended. Birk may not be in purple come opening day. Those are two huge factors for you that point downward.

I was curious what kind of defensive numbers the Chiefs had with Jared Allen. Last year they were 5th against the pass but 28th vs. the run. The Vikes were 1st vs. run and 32nd vs. pass. Jared Allen should balance that out a little. I doubt you'll be tops vs. run or dead last vs. the pass this time around. I was also curious to see if Jared Allen led to a bunch of interceptions by the Chiefs secondary. I've heard that Allen will help create more turnovers for the defense because of his pass rush. Well, the stats say NO. The Vikes were 20th in the NFL in interceptions while the Chiefs were 23rd. Now, the Chiefs were run on all day so they had less opportunity to get picks. The Vikes were passed on all day because they were the worst in the league so they had more opportunities. I'm extremely curious to see Allen's influence on your defense. Ray Edwards is saying he'll beat Strahan's sack record. Talk like that always leads to bad things.

I know a Jared Allen led defense equated to a 4-12 season. The Chiefs have LJ and a terrible QB much like the Vikes have AD and a terrible QB. It seems like Jared Allen is going into a similar situation as he found himself in KC. The only difference is there is no Tamba Hali on the other side in Minnesota.

so glad you are watching over us

quote:

I never got that sense in Minnesota or Wisconsin. I prefer living in Wisconsin or Minnesota to down here, but love the warmth and the state pride.

You need to get out more often

(insert Jeff Dubay- "yeah, I think so!!!")

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by Erik T. Redman:
Your perception of how Viking Fans think and act is quite hilarious.

Glad you got us all figured out.

I lived in, or around, the area for most of my life and many of my friends were Viking fans.

I think you may have made a bigger comment about the intelligence of your choices in friends than the type of fans the VIKINGS have.

You can make all the generalizations you want, and preach total doom or gloom for the VIKINGS. I know, that's your god given right as a Packer fan.

But if you take most of the claims you've made on this thread about how poorly the VIKINGS will do this coming year and insert the word Packers for VIKINGS your chances of being correct are probably the close to the same.

Both teams have changed. What we don't know yet is will those changes improve the respective teams.

That's why they play the games.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
One of the funniest things to me is that Aaron Kampman has more sacks over the last two seasons than Jared Allen. If the Vikes had gotten him there wouldn't be half the buzz (bad word choice given Allen's propensity to knock down beers easier than QB's) over the signing. These fans hear "last year's NFL sack leader" and have that purple vikgasm. EVERY NFL sack leader over the last 7 seasons has seen his numbers plummet by at least 5 sacks, or more, the following season.

Very selective use of numbers "over the last two seasons". Why just the last two? Maybe because that's the only way your argument looks good?

If we look at last year, the numbers are 15.5 for Allan, 12 for Kampman

If we look at the year before, 7.5 for Allan,15.5 for Kampman

If we look at the year before that, 11 for Allan, 6.5 for Kampman

And the year before that, 9 for Allan, 4.5 for Kampman....

Bottom line, in 4 seasons in the NFL Allan has 43 sacks for an average of 10.75 sacks per season, Kampman has a total of 41 sacks in 6 seasons for an average of 6.83 per season.

If I could take only 2 seasons of their respective careers to compare, I'd choose their first 2 years in the NFL. The numbers there - 20 for Allan and 2.5 for Kampman. But I would understand that anyone with a modicum of intelligence would realize I wasn't being fair.

In Allan's third season he had 7.5 sacks (his worst season ever). In Kampman's third season he had 4.5. Interesting, isn't it???

Kampman's best season to date was his 5th season. It was a great season. This will be Allan's 5th season. Hmmmm.....

Statistically both Allen and Kampmann are very good players, but I would take Kampmann. The odds of him getting into something stupid off the field are very unlikely, and he's got a better overall contract. He also plays OK run defense whereas Allen is more of a pure pass rusher.

If we could stick to the topic and lay off the same, tired BS (our fans are better than yours, blah blah blah) then maybe there's something to talk about. Both teams have a lot to prove this upcoming year, but I still believe GB is in a better position to do something than Minnesota. That being said, we've seen it time and time again where teams can come out of nowhere or injuries can kill a team. All I know is that I think GB will be OK this year, but whether or not that means 13-3 or another trip to the NFCCG I don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
It is nice to see people care so much about where they're from. I never got that sense in Minnesota or Wisconsin. I prefer living in Wisconsin or Minnesota to down here, but love the warmth and the state pride.

I think it has more to do with their inflated egos than it does pride in where they live

champ. Thanks for reminding me why you're such a.....such a....such a.....popular poster!

quote:

Originally posted by Big Purple Guy:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Jared Allen doesn't equal some divine right to the playoffs.

No it doesn't. But I don't think it's outrageous to be optimistic that a team could improve enough from an 8-8 season to make the playoffs. In all likelihood, we're only talking about 2 more wins. It's unlikely that all the moves made will work out and improve the team, but it's also unlikely that all the moves made will fail. And there are young players that could improve. Obviously time will tell, but I don't think that expecting them to make the playoffs is unreasonable.

Good to see ya BPG. I'm curious what your thoughts were when the Vikings had a shot at Brohm or Henne and passed on them both? Where are the Vikings going to get a QB to win a Super Bowl with?

CJS, what is the big deal with the Vikings "passing on Brohm or Henne"? They were taken at the bottom of the second round, same as the immortal Tarvaris Jackson. The odds of either guy being a successful NFL quarterback are slim. Every team in the NFL passed on both guys once and sometimes twice. Not all of those teams needed quarterbacks, but certainly some did and would have taken them sooner if they were anything close to sure things. Are they better prospects than Booty, absolutely, but I would be no more concerned about the Vikings if they'd taken one of them. Maybe they passed on them because they think the guy they took in the second is going to be a really good NFL player and neither of those quarterbacks will be. And they certainly might be right.

Here are the quarterbacks selected in the 2nd round over the past 20 years. I see a total of two really good NFL quarterbacks, Favre and Brees. (Maybe a case can be made for Jake Plummer or Kordell Stewart at at least adequate.) And both Favre and Brees were taken just 2-3 picks outside the first round, some 25 picks earlier than Brohm or Henne. It's a whole lot more likely that these guys will be the next Billy Joe Tolliver than some dangerous NFL QB.

1989 2 32 Mike Elkins
1989 2 51 Billy Joe Tolliver
1991 2 33 Brett Favre
1991 2 34 Browning Nagle
1992 2 40 Matt Blundin
1992 2 46 Tony Sacca
1995 2 45 Todd Collins
1995 2 60 Kordell Stewart
1996 2 42 Tony Banks
1997 2 42 Jake Plummer
1998 2 60 Charlie Batch
1999 2 50 Shaun King
2001 2 32 Drew Brees
2001 2 53 Quincy Carter
2001 2 59 Marques Tuiasosopo
2006 2 49 Kellen Clemens
2006 2 64 Tarvaris Jackson
2007 2 36 Kevin Kolb
2007 2 40 John Beck
2007 2 43 Drew Stanton

Well, a lot of teams passed on Randy Moss as well so what's your point?

For a team that has legit QB issues (yes, that's Minnesota) it was puzzling that they didn't take either Henne or Brohm. That's not to say either guy will be a guaranteed success, but they do need help and either guy would have been a logical choice.

My point is they might have evaluated both quarterbacks in their pre-draft preparations and decided they were probably going to suck, just like Tarvaris Jackson. Just because they need a QB doesn't mean you draft one early just to draft one, if you don't think that guy's going to be any good. Drafting for need is a great way to throw away a draft pick.

Look, I'm not defending the Vikings decisions or talent evaluators, but for somebody to say it's crazy that they didn't take Brohm or Henne just because they were very good college QBs and the Vikings needed a quarterback isn't logical. The odds are that neither guy will be a good NFL starter. Maybe that's what the Vikings (and a whole lot of NFL teams) thought, and maybe they'll be right.