quote:

Originally posted by Music City:

trot out an infield of Fielder, Weeks, Escobar, and JJ- that's pretty exciting. Plus Escobar, if he can prove to be as effective against ML pitching as AAA, could bat leadoff, giving the Brewers a fast 1-2 in Escobar and Weeks, with braun and Fielder following, and JJ raking in the scraps in the 5 hole. I could see that lineup for a long time- plus gamel at the 6, whoever their CF will be 7th, and the C 8th. That's a pretty powerful lineup.

I like that lineup minus Fielder. First, he won't be here after this contract is up anyway. Second, he will eat his way to eternal DH soon enough.

I wonder if Gamel could play first?

quote:

Originally posted by pakrbakr:
I wonder if Gamel could play first?

No doubt Gamel could play first if he can play third. I would suspect he would end up being way better than Prince defensively.

I wonder if Gamel could move to right for a spell if they decide to move Hart and Hardy agrees to move third.

Right now, if they have to move someone, I would choose to move Hart AND I would hope Hardy moves to third and Prince stays.

I used to think that maybe Hart would be the most valuable to keep out of JJ/Hart/Prince/Weeks but my mind is changing.

The whole key to everything, IMO, is Hardy moving to 3B. Then you have two options for Gamel...1B or RF. Move Hart, go to RF. Move Prince...go to 1B. If you keep both and Hart can play a good CF...all the better.

quote:

I like that lineup minus Fielder. First, he won't be here after this contract is up anyway. Second, he will eat his way to eternal DH soon enough.

I wonder if Gamel could play first?

I don't think this is fair. Prince came into this season in probably the best shape in 3-4 years this season- he deserves crdit. He has improved a TON with the glove.

Maybe Boras will want Prince in a big market for the big bucks, but I don't think he'll eat his way out of Milwaukee. I think the kid knows that his weight will determine his success.

quote:

Originally posted by pakrbakr:
First, he won't be here after this contract is up anyway. Second, he will eat his way to eternal DH soon enough.

Totally disagree with that. Fielder just signed an extension and Attanasio has started to show he will pay top dollar for core players.

When did he sign an extension?

I really don't think they will try to move Fielder this year or even next year unless he really starts becoming a distraction about the long term contract. Now, will they resign him to a long term deal? I have my doubts, but who knows? My opinion is that if they were going to keep anyone it would be Fielder.

On the other hand, I think guys like JJ and Hart are more likely candidates to go.

Concerning Gamel's defense so far it hasn't really been a big deal and the way he swings the bat (and the fact he's another lefty in the lineup) I would think he's going to stay at 3B the rest of the year.

Long term the Brewers should have a lot of options with their infielders due to guys like Escobar, Lawrie, etc coming up. Then again, they may choose to deal them for pitching.

picking nits, but that is not an extension, just a two year contract during his arby years. Nothing has been "extended."

I am always surprised more players don't retire early for the exact reasons he gave. I don't fault him if he keeps playing, but if he retires as he stated he would go from one of the players I dislike the most to an ex-player that I would respect.

Extension, new contract, whatever. The fact is that he chose to stay in Milwaukee and seems committed to this organization.

Picking nits, is very appropriate for Prince Fielder on X4. There have been some fans on X4 that just feel it necessary to constantly question Prince's commitment or whether he can last in the NL. It's a bunch of bs. The guy realized he had a weight problem and has taken steps to keep it under control. As far as the fielding issues early on, that happens with a lot of young players coming from the minors. Don't believe me, then go ask Ryan Braun or Matt Gamel.

After Albert Pujols, it's tough to find a better all-around first baseman than Fielder in the NL. When was the last time Milwaukee could say that? Nick Johnson hits for average but isn't even in the conversation with Prince when power comes into play. Same goes for Todd Helton who's power is no longer such a factor (Talk about a potential juicer in the middle of his career). Pujols, obviously is ahead of Prince with the bat right now.

Defensively, Prince is thus far ahead of Pujols and Johnson but trails Helton in fielding percentage for 2009. Factor in all of those intangibles and then add in the fact that Fielder is only 25. Pujols is almost 30 and has had his share of injuries. Johnson is 30 and Helton is 35.

I'll tell you Prince doubters what, if you have the balls and ability, go poll National League GMs asking them if they would take Fielder off of Milwaukee's hands for a few A+ prospects. I guarantee you 99% of them would and that 1% (John Mozeliak in St. Louis) would think long and hard about it. Questioning whether Prince Fielder is the right fit for the Brewers now or in the future is right up there with the most ridiculous, ludicrous topics in the history of this website. Prince should get paid handsomely by Attanasio when his contract is up and you know what, I am betting Attanasio will do just that. At this point, Prince Fielder deserves to get paid well.

I agree. I have gone back and forth on Prince- especially after his moaning about contract last year. I thought Boras was getting into his head.

But before last seaosn, I saw what he means to this team and franchise- he is the identifiable face of the franchise. There is certainly a danger, as with all players, that things could go south for one reason or another. Prince has a weight issue. If he keeps it under wraps, he's an MVP candidate. He has been before. And the players look to him for leadership. he provides that by keeping things loose and being a quality teammate- qualities he has shown already.

I am nervous about him wanting insane money when the new contract expires- but if St Louis can afford to make Pujols a lifetime Cardinal, the Brewers can afford Prince. And I think Mark A will do it, too.

What'll get interesting is if Boras turns up the heat and basically takes Milwaukee out of the picture. If that happens I would expect the Brewers to try to make a deal.

There are other factors in play. Does Prince want to stay in Milwaukee and not simply make as much money as possible. I am not advocating that he needs to take a hometown discount to stay, but if a team like the Yankees, Red Sox, or Angels want him they will be able to spend more than the Brewers most of the time.

I did question his commitment to keeping in good shape. This year he looks much better, but I also stated that I felt any conditioning he does would not be about the improvement of the Milwaukee Brewers, but the improvement of future earnings and I still believe that was a big part of his improved conditioning. Not surprisingly with the improved conditioning has come improved defensive play, which will help the Brewers and increase the number of teams that will throw big money at him in two and a half years.

I don't recall anyone here wanting to trade him for low minor league prospects. I know that I suggested a package to the Dodgers with Broxton and Loney, among other ideas which included major leauge ready players like Kazmir, Niemann, and Aybar.

I don't necessarily want him out of Milwaukee, but I also don't believe that he wants to be here long term. If he stays and is motivated by team success rather than a big fat contract as a free agent then that would be great.

Brosto, that's the kind of bs that I am talking about. Post some factual statements that Prince has come out and made. Unless you can do that, I am really questioning why you would make such outlandish claims.

How about the history of Boras clients going to open market? That is as much as I need to know. It is no fault of anyone to do that, because it is a business but that in itself is a reason why many feel like they do. If you hire Boras it is because you are looking out for your best interests and Prince's best interests aren't the same as the Brewers' best interests.

Do you think it is just a coincidence that a year after his performance declines that he goes out and gets in better shape. There was plenty of talk about Howard's first year of arbitration and Prince didn't do enough to earn that kind of money. That very winter he loses a bunch of weight as he draws nearer to free agency.

Generalization after generalization.

So Boras and Prince's comments about their unhappiness with the renewal of his contract in 2008 should not be used to suggest that perhaps he is motivated by money.

Here is a little excerpt from the Brewers' Blog, "I haven't had the chance to talk to Fielder yet about the renewal but I did speak with his agent, Scott Boras, who indicated his client was seeking something more in line with the $900,000 that Phillies first baseman Ryan Howard made last year.

"You look industry-wide and see how players with similar performances are treated," said Boras. "The reason for the renewal was that Prince felt that standard wasn't met.""

Sounds happy to me...


"I'm just happy we were able to get it done. Like I said, fair on both sides. I have no complaints, I'm just ready to play baseball," he said.

Here is a direct quote from Prince on 3/3/08, “I’m not happy about it at all,” Fielder said after the Brewers’ workout this morning. “The fact that they’ve renewed me two years in a row now. “There are a lot of guys with the same amount of time I have who have done a lot less than me and are getting paid a lot more. But my time is going to come and it’s coming quick, too.”

Sure he's happy about his current contract because it was a fair deal for him as he stated. It was also a fair deal for Milwaukee. He was more than likely not going to win in arbitration based on his performance and history of hearings. It also doesn't take him away from free agency in 2011. A fair deal for Prince as a free agent will not be a good thing for Milwaukee, if it is the Yankees, Red Sox, or Angels making that "fair" offer. But his time is coming, and it's coming quick.

an athlete concerned about money?

unheard of

Fielder was unhappy and then happy. How dare he!

Whether he is happy or not now is moot, nice that since I provided a "factual statement" now you're changing your argument to whether or not he is happy. You wanted quotes from him that would support him not sticking around and there you have it. He might as well have said, "Show me the money!" He will get his and it is coming quick. I stated immediately that baseball is a business and by hiring Boras he is looking out for his business interests. It does give people plenty of reason to think he will not be staying in Milwaukee when he hits free agency. Baseball is a business, and I am fine with that, Prince's past statements (which you asked for) and his hiring of Boras(along with Boras' statements) give plenty of credence to him not planning on sticking around.

quote:

Originally posted by brosto1:
Whether he is happy or not now is moot, nice that since I provided a "factual statement" now you're changing your argument to whether or not he is happy. You wanted quotes from him that would support him not sticking around and there you have it. He might as well have said, "Show me the money!" He will get his and it is coming quick. I stated immediately that baseball is a business and by hiring Boras he is looking out for his business interests. It does give people plenty of reason to think he will not be staying in Milwaukee when he hits free agency. Baseball is a business, and I am fine with that, Prince's past statements (which you asked for) and his hiring of Boras(along with Boras' statements) give plenty of credence to him not planning on sticking around.

Thats's a fair arguement